For certain kind of user

Post #71,864 by Arkadiy 1/1/03 2:50:31 PM Reply	For certain kind of user (for root by default), cp is indeed set up to confirm file overwrite. But that's besides the point. There is a difference between faithfully executing what you're told to do and corrupting data. If I can't rely on my tools to do what I tell them too, if I have to keep in mind details like filesystems - the abstraction has been breached. I might as well have a list of disk sector allocation on paper somewhere. Ben Tilly already addressed it better than I ever could. Think of all the scripts that use cp hoping that it works... Your /tmp uses new FS, so copying file there and back corrupts it. How many scripts keep copies of files in tmp? -- We have only 2 things to worry about: That things will never get back to normal, and that they already have.
Post #71,889 by rickmoen 1/1/03 5:28:32 PM Reply	Re: For certain kind of user Arkadiy wrote: For certain kind of user (for root by default), cp is indeed set up to confirm file overwrite. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader, to determine why this is a strategic error. Shouldn't be difficult; the question comes up frequently. But that's besides the point. Well, no, it's not, actually. There is a difference between faithfully executing what you're told to do and corrupting data. ObVious: Not when faithfully executing what you're told to do corrupts data. (I'd say deletion is the extreme form of corruption, nicht wahr?) Anyhow, this has long exceeded the point of silliness. I'll leave you with an apposite quotation from the Scary Devil Monastery, which I just ran across and found amusing: DON'T MAKE THAT FACE WHEN I TELL YOU TO READ THE FCKING MANUAL! IT'S GOOD FOR YOU I SAY! READ THE FCKING MANUAL! How do you think I found out how the machine works? DID I SIT AROUND ASKING SOMEBODY FOR A FEW MONTHS?? -- Beable van Polasm (Ya wanna argue? Fine, go find van Polasm.) Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Post #71,966 by tuberculosis 1/2/03 5:07:06 AM Reply	Gee - got an ISBN for that manual? Or maybe a command I can execute? It can't be "man". Because when I gave you the results of that, you could't point anything useful out. I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Post #71,969 by rickmoen 1/2/03 5:27:29 AM Reply	Re: Gee - got an ISBN for that manual? Gee, I'm sorry, if you're having that much difficulty figuring out how to understand how files are stored on your OS of choice and how your software tools work, you'll have to find someone as a tutor, as evidently some fairly detailed explanations here are not sufficing. You'll have to see someone in your local vicinity. Good luck to you. Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Post #72,462 by ben_tilly 1/4/03 12:58:00 PM Reply	He had no difficulty in figuring out how the system works In fact his description was good enough for me to understand exactly what the problem was and why it happens. His difficulty is in figuring out where and when most users should learn that this is obvious. You tell him that he should RTFM. He is asking you which M is TFM to R. You have so far failed to come up with a shorter answer than, Become a guru first, then it will be obvious. Which seriously begs the question. Frankly I am having the same difficulty that Todd is. I see the problem. I see why it is a problem. I see problems with virtually any attempted solution. However I also don't see any documentation that most users - even more competent technical users - would see that says this. Let me put this another way. If I explain this problem to someone with a moderately strong technical inclination who did not know it, what can I tell them that they should learn about (short of "everything") to make this kind of thing obvious to them in the future? Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #72,048 by Arkadiy 1/2/03 12:53:27 PM Reply	rm - the ultimate corruptor -- We have only 2 things to worry about: That things will never get back to normal, and that they already have.
Post #72,224 by Arkadiy 1/3/03 11:09:42 AM Reply	ouch! R.M. - the ultimate corruptor. -- We have only 2 things to worry about: That things will never get back to normal, and that they already have.
Post #72,535 by inthane-chan 1/4/03 5:34:25 PM Reply	rm -rf / The TRUE ultimate corruptor. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wise cannot see all ends." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring.
Post #72,343 by boxley 1/3/03 6:17:33 PM Reply	isnt that the beauty of nix? It does what it is commanded to its up to the user to determine if that is what they wanted. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] You think that you can trust the government to look after your rights? ask an Indian
Post #72,375 by deSitter 1/3/03 9:15:50 PM Reply	Well, personally.. ..I'd been involved with UNIX for about 20 minutes, learning redirection, when I realized that everything in UNIX was a file - I was blown away when this hit me. I remember my co-worker root had this peculiar glow in his eye when I was freaking out about having "discovered" this :) -drl
Post #72,384 by boxley 1/3/03 10:00:52 PM Reply	yup my intro to unix was with a genius named tom giving me a 6 weeks course of hardcore nix and hardware. He was one of the builders of the original livermore supercomputer and has an awesome brain. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] You think that you can trust the government to look after your rights? ask an Indian

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