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New shoeboxes, pencils, and strips of paper
I am frustrated because I don't see any way in living hell how compiler implementation has any fricken thing to do with this here, yet you make a big fricken insultive deal about it. It is like talking to the meter maid about differences between two watches and ticket times, and then she suddenly starts to mutter about how the car engine works.

I am *not* talking about machine efficiency here. I am talking about how it makes the life of the *developer* easier and simpler.

Building everything with a dictionary-like class hinders the *developer* because it forces them to funnel everything in their through the concept these "dictionaries". Whether the code is executed through a compiler or a person behind a black curtain using pencils, strips of paper, and shoe-boxes to execute it is moot.

Does your (weird vague) argument still hold if we assume that a person behind a black curtain using pencils, strips of paper, and shoe-boxes executes it?

I doubt it.

You OO'ers just think so weird upstairs. I cannot figure out your odd little minds. It is an intellectual culture clash worse than Middle East fights. Bizzaaar. Yet at the same time it is fascinating, like trying to figure out how aliens think. But the aliens piss in my face when I ask questions.

With some effort and research, I can probably implement a recursive algorithm without recursion.

I have done it using tables. You mark the nodes already visited and process those that are not. You can manage the ordering by sorting by path length and a few other things.

Go learn about how compilers work. Then we will have much better common ground to talk from.

You have not given any evidence that a specific implementation of a compiler is important (beyond performance issues). Whether it is Yacc, gerbals, or pencils and shoeboxes that executes the code is not a concern *at all* to the developers and designers, as long as those all follow the spec. I have no idea why you are bring it up. My schema was meant to be conceptual, not an interpreter design.

12. Two other respondants in this thread began citing basic compiler techniques.

It was a side topic about Smalltalk.

WRT your URL example, I have no idea what you mean by "return-to type". I would probably have to see a little code sample. You know what a fan I am of "type" taxonomies.

7. You replied to just the postscript. 8. I flamed back. In the Flame Forum, because I wanted to get personal.

What "back"? You are admitting that you got personal *first*, accusing me of "deliberately" doing some kind of evil textual act.
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Read everything again. Yes, the whole thread.
Because I'm not going to say anything I haven't already posted. Meanwhile, I'll try not to annoy you if you'll try not to piss me off.

I am *not* talking about machine efficiency here. I am talking about how it makes the life of the *developer* easier and simpler.

So am I. I'll say that again: so am I. The implementation details of a specific compiler or language were not mentioned and are not germane to the discussion (though they might be of passing interest). However, there are data processing algorithms common to virtually all language implementations that were. And the one in the spotlight is called a Symbol Table.

Building everything with a dictionary-like class hinders the *developer* because it forces them to funnel everything in their through the concept these "dictionaries". Whether the code is executed through a compiler or a person behind a black curtain using pencils, strips of paper, and shoe-boxes to execute it is moot.

This is where a grounding in basic computer science would benefit you. If you knew how a conventional compiler worked, you would already realize that your example is inverted. Taxonomy is usually implemented as a specific type of dictionary - called a symbol table - because that is what the language usually needs to achieve what the programmer intended. The namespace characteristics of object-oriented programming came first: dictionaries are the logical ways to implement them down inside the compiler/interpreter.

Does your (weird vague) argument still hold if we assume that a person behind a black curtain using pencils, strips of paper, and shoe-boxes executes it?
I doubt it.

Actually, it would. But I don't want to spend time explaining how right now.

Go learn about how compilers work. Then we will have much better common ground to talk from.
You have not given any evidence that a specific implementation of a compiler is important (beyond performance issues). Whether it is Yacc, gerbals, or pencils and shoeboxes that executes the code is not a concern *at all* to the developers and designers, as long as those all follow the spec. I have no idea why you are bring it up. My schema was meant to be conceptual, not an interpreter design.

I've already told you why I mentioned it: the use of dictionaries to manage type and object names is already in use and is further down in most languages than you think it is. It has nothing to do with a specific implementation. Go learn how a compiler works, already! The book I linked to is very well regarded and covers all the basics and lots more besides.

WRT your URL example, I have no idea what you mean by "return-to type". I would probably have to see a little code sample. You know what a fan I am of "type" taxonomies.

Let's not go down that road just yet, either.

Wade.

Microsoft are clearly boiling the frogs.

New You are still thinking in code
I've already told you why I mentioned it: the use of dictionaries to manage type and object names is already in use and is further down in most languages than you think it is.

It does not matter whether they are already there or not. Tablizing does *not* depend on them for noun modeling because it uses the database and *not* symbol tables nor dictionaries as its higher-level structure. (I suppose you are going to fuss that I should learn how RDBMS are implemented also. Note that one can probably build one using dictionaries of dictionaries if they wanted to. I don't question that.)

I will make you a deal: You go learn about why hierarchical and network databases failed, and I will go learn about compilers.

Sorry I brought the whole thing up. Use whatever fricken definition of OO you want. Mentioning the word "dictionary" apparently triggers rapidly firing memories of your compiler courses, blinding you to my point.
________________
oop.ismad.com
     A relational definition of OOP - (tablizer) - (62)
         It makes sense to me but also - (boxley)
         Pretty much correct - (tuberculosis) - (58)
             re: Pretty much correct - (tablizer) - (57)
                 The difference. - (static) - (4)
                     Re: The difference - (tablizer) - (3)
                         Okay, I'll try again. - (static) - (2)
                             re: Okay, I'll try again. - (tablizer) - (1)
                                 Go troll elsewhere. (new thread) - (static)
                 Its whats in the dictionaries that is interesting - (tuberculosis) - (41)
                     Re: Its whats in the dictionaries that is interesting - (deSitter) - (1)
                         Its very similar - (tuberculosis)
                     marrying data and behavior - (tablizer) - (38)
                         Re: marrying data and behavior - (tuberculosis) - (37)
                             Re: marrying data and behavior - (tablizer) - (36)
                                 Got it - (tuberculosis) - (35)
                                     you are not weighing the whole kitten kabootal - (tablizer) - (34)
                                         Kitten Kabootal?? Is that some stripper you know? - (deSitter) - (2)
                                             Don't I wish :-) -NT - (tablizer)
                                             I know her! great smile and a grinning kabootal! -NT - (boxley)
                                         Sure I am - but you're not - (tuberculosis) - (30)
                                             Wow! If this woun't get through, nothing can. - (Arkadiy)
                                             LISP - Lists + Relational - (tablizer) - (28)
                                                 Gets you Smalltalk - (tuberculosis) - (26)
                                                     Thanks! 1 topic down, Googolplex-1 to go. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (24)
                                                         For Bryce, this is pretty much the only topic he discusses - (tuberculosis) - (23)
                                                             That is not true - (tablizer) - (22)
                                                                 Not to mention sheet music conventions/annotations. :) -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (21)
                                                                     Woah - sheet music - I haven't seen that stuff in years... - (tuberculosis) - (20)
                                                                         Playing by ear - (Steve Lowe) - (8)
                                                                             ObAol MeToo (tm) - (Meerkat) - (7)
                                                                                 Re: ObAol MeToo (tm) - (deSitter) - (6)
                                                                                     I can read music, I'm just really slow at it. -NT - (Meerkat) - (5)
                                                                                         That's really interesting. - (static) - (3)
                                                                                             Speed-reader here - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                 You're a drummer? Cool! -NT - (deSitter)
                                                                                             I use chord charts a lot - (Steve Lowe)
                                                                                         Same here. - (admin)
                                                                         Todd, Steve, guys - just a well-meaning tip: - (CRConrad) - (10)
                                                                             CRC, Just a Well Meaning Tip.. - (deSitter) - (6)
                                                                                 What's annoying as Hell is pompous know-it-alls, and... - (CRConrad)
                                                                                 Bar table load times aren't affected by size of past chat -NT - (admin) - (4)
                                                                                     That's the legitimate use - (deSitter) - (3)
                                                                                         Naah, you're missing the REAL use: - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                                                             Re: Naah, you're missing the REAL use: - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                                                                 OK, that last point is one we can agree on, at least! :-) -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                                             If I had any idea this would be so hot - (tuberculosis)
                                                                             Well meaning tip - (Steve Lowe) - (1)
                                                                                 Long as you knew you "prolly shoulda", that's all I wanted. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                     But I get juiced-up dispatching, et al. - (tablizer)
                                                 Re: LISP - Lists + Relational - (deSitter)
                 re: Pretty much correct - (johnu) - (9)
                     "Data" is whatever you make it - (tablizer) - (8)
                         Re: "Data" is whatever you make it - (johnu) - (7)
                             complexity of Java is not a selling point - (tablizer)
                             I wouldn't bother, John. - (static) - (5)
                                 No,YOU don't get it: 1-1-1 is Limiting - (tablizer) - (4)
                                     *sigh* Since you asked... - (static) - (3)
                                         shoeboxes, pencils, and strips of paper - (tablizer) - (2)
                                             Read everything again. Yes, the whole thread. - (static) - (1)
                                                 You are still thinking in code - (tablizer)
         Re: A relational definition of OOP - (deSitter) - (1)
             Re: A relational definition of OOP - (JimWeirich)

A day late and a dollar short.
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