IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Basic point seems to have been missed
Ben wrote:

Take files on an HFS filesystem. Tar them using standard unix tools.

That would be an obvious error, right there, and implies being clueless about how file storage works. The quoted suggestion is -- for anyone who understands how file storage works on MacOS X -- a bad idea regardless of whether you're going to untar them onto UFS or HFS+.

So, as the old joke goes, Don't Do That, Then. Part of the point of having most of your filesystem space be UFS is so that you can use standard Unix tools within the UFS majority storage (provided that you transport resources dotfiles with the related regular files). Saying that you can't reliably use such tools to move files onto HFS+ misses the point: You can't reliably use them within HFS+, either.

The Church of Steve solution is to use solely the worse filesystem, and deprive yourself completely of standard Unix filehandling tools, "because they're dangerous, and those recommending them are irresponsible".

"Fire bad, burn Lorto's finger, cause disharmony among tribe. No future in it. Stick to drawing icons on cave wall."

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Collapse Edited by rickmoen Dec. 26, 2002, 04:13:21 PM EST
Basic point seems to have been missed
Ben wrote:

Take files on an HFS filesystem. Tar them using standard unix tools.

That would be an obvious error, right there, and implies being clueless about how file storage works. The quoted suggestion is -- for anyone who understands how file storage works on MacOS X -- a bad idea regardless of whether you're going to untar them onto UFS or HFS+.

So, as the old joke goes, Don't Do That, Then. Part of the point of having most of your filesystem space be UFS is so that you can use standard Unix tools (provided that you transport resources dotfiles with the related regular files). Saying that you can't reliably use such tools to move files onto HFS+ misses the point: You can't reliably use them within HFS+, either.

The Church of Steve solution is to use solely the worse filesystem, and deprive yourself completely of standard Unix filehandling tools, "because they're dangerous, and those recommending them are irresponsible".

"Fire bad, burn Lorto's finger, cause disharmony among tribe. No future in it. Stick to drawing icons on cave wall."

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
New Yes you have missed it
every time. You can't seem to follow the thread. Ben exactly nailed it.

"Take files on an HFS filesystem. Tar them using standard unix tools."

Can you manage to follow those directions? Apparently not. I believe cp and mv has similar issues BTW.

You say:
"That would be an obvious error, right there, and implies being clueless about how file storage works."

That would be perhaps one of the more pompous and idiotic things you've ever said. Which is saying a lot.

What exactly is *obvious* about that error?

I have a commercial unix, with command line tools, that has a proprietary file system. For the most part the command line tools behave exactly as they do on any other unix. cat, mv, cp, ls, ln, all work like you would expect despite the underlying file system being HFS.

And I should obviously expect that with these tools all working as expected that the tar implementation that ships with that system would have issues with the files? Pray tell why? Clearly, the other tools have been modified to work on HFS.

It seems to me the very height of reasonable for a vendor shipping an OS with a set of file manipulation utilities would go to a bit of work to extend the utilities to work properly on their file system. The fact that they didn't is what I found really very surprising.

Fortunately, the community has answered and some extended utilities have been developed like the aforementioned hfstar, which works exactly like tar - because it is - only on hfs systems it converts the resource forks to the directory wrapper format you keep harping about on your wife's system.

Which is basically what I expected Apple would have shipped with the system and called "tar".

So shame on Apple for shipping lame assed tools like this.

But to imply that this is obvious is - well - really quite stupid.

I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration.
Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
New I see so to use OSX effectively
blow away your 9.x partition with all those legacy apps and data. Reformat to UFS so unix tools will work. Sounds like a winblows solution to me.
Use the tool that does the job and have the wisdom to know the difference.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

You think that you can trust the government to look after your rights? ask an Indian
     Windows Linux and Mac OS X - a new hallelujia !!! - (dmarker) - (122)
         Re: Windows Linux and Mac OS X - a new hallelujia !!! - (tjsinclair) - (8)
             Re: Windows Linux and Mac OS X - a new hallelujia !!! - (deSitter) - (2)
                 Regarding the mouse - (tjsinclair) - (1)
                     Re: Regarding the mouse - (deSitter)
             Linux kernel - (rickmoen) - (4)
                 The presumption is... - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                     Re: The presumption is... - (rickmoen) - (1)
                         Having the option is valuable, even if not exercised - (ben_tilly)
                     Nah - (tuberculosis)
         MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (rickmoen) - (110)
             I guess this is what we get - (tjsinclair) - (81)
                 Well, no, it's not a Linux thing at all - (rickmoen) - (80)
                     Re: Well, no, it's not a Linux thing at all - (dmarker) - (78)
                         Workplace OS rocked - (rickmoen) - (77)
                             good criticism, but only half right (re. filesystems) - (cwbrenn) - (8)
                                 On FAT vs HPFS - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                     Re: On FAT vs HPFS - (rickmoen) - (5)
                                         Re: On FAT vs HPFS - (deSitter) - (4)
                                             Re: On FAT vs HPFS - (Steve Lowe) - (3)
                                                 Re: On FAT vs HPFS - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                     3 copies now on eBay. IBM has it too for $180. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                     consider picking up eCS - (SpiceWare)
                                 Er, I did say two volumes... - (rickmoen)
                             Partial agreement here - (tjsinclair) - (67)
                                 Thanks for that - (rickmoen) - (4)
                                     Very True (TANGENT) - (cwbrenn) - (3)
                                         Proprietary forks and threat models - (rickmoen) - (2)
                                             Dystopian Vision - (cwbrenn) - (1)
                                                 Re: Dystopian Vision - (rickmoen)
                                 Accident waiting to happen - (tuberculosis) - (61)
                                     You found a way to break your files? Sorry to hear. - (rickmoen) - (60)
                                         You're wrong again as usual - stick to Linux -NT - (tuberculosis) - (59)
                                             Verily, the technopeasant priesthood has spoken - (rickmoen) - (58)
                                                 You don't actually *use* the system, do you. - (tuberculosis) - (57)
                                                     Unix file basics - (rickmoen) - (56)
                                                         HFS File basics - (tuberculosis) - (42)
                                                             Envoi - (rickmoen) - (41)
                                                                 You could run the correct test - (ben_tilly) - (40)
                                                                     This would be my cue to ask this: (new thread) - (static)
                                                                     Exactly - thanks -NT - (tuberculosis)
                                                                     I am understanding unix&tar has different capabilities? - (boxley) - (34)
                                                                         Not sure what you are asking - (tuberculosis)
                                                                         No - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                                             my point was Nix tools do not understand all file systems - (boxley)
                                                                         You understand wrong - (kmself) - (30)
                                                                             well lets try it out - (boxley) - (9)
                                                                                 You know dam well... - (folkert) - (4)
                                                                                     point==missed - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                         Windows, MAC OSX, MacOS9.x, *NIX - (folkert) - (2)
                                                                                             ed zachery -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                             Windows has the bigger problem... - (ChrisR)
                                                                                 Wrong - (kmself) - (3)
                                                                                     The reason I brought this upo was recovering files from a - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                         Two possible issues I can think of... - (kmself) - (1)
                                                                                             It was over a year ago so bear with me - (boxley)
                                                                             Once again, Todd's explanation - (ben_tilly) - (19)
                                                                                 Using a hammer to drive screws will hurt - (rickmoen) - (18)
                                                                                     I understand your position perfectly - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                                                                                         Re: I understand your position perfectly - (rickmoen) - (9)
                                                                                             If it is not a straw man... - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                                                                                 Re: If it is not a straw man... - (rickmoen) - (7)
                                                                                                     Funny, I concluded the same as Ben - (tuberculosis) - (6)
                                                                                                         Re: Funny, I concluded the same as Ben - (rickmoen) - (5)
                                                                                                             Little story - you might find it entertaining - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                                                 Excellent story. Going on the wall. -NT - (admin)
                                                                                                                 This my dear friend... (new thread) - (folkert)
                                                                                                             Since you seem to be missing the point... - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                                                                                 Re: Since you seem to be missing the point... - (rickmoen)
                                                                                     I do not think that word means what you think it means. - (tuberculosis) - (6)
                                                                                         Hello, you must be going. - (rickmoen) - (5)
                                                                                             This is obvious? - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                                                                                 Re: This is obvious? - (rickmoen) - (3)
                                                                                                     At no time did you utter the word "obvious" - nice dodge - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                                         Re: At no time did you utter the word "obvious" - nice dodge - (rickmoen) - (1)
                                                                                                             Topic at hand - point out what you claim is "obvious" (new thread) - (tuberculosis)
                                                                     Basic point seems to have been missed - (rickmoen) - (2)
                                                                         Yes you have missed it - (tuberculosis)
                                                                         I see so to use OSX effectively - (boxley)
                                                         Never used Apple OSes in my life, - (Arkadiy) - (12)
                                                             Re: Never used Apple OSes in my life, - (rickmoen) - (11)
                                                                 For certain kind of user - (Arkadiy) - (10)
                                                                     Re: For certain kind of user - (rickmoen) - (9)
                                                                         Gee - got an ISBN for that manual? - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                             Re: Gee - got an ISBN for that manual? - (rickmoen) - (1)
                                                                                 He had no difficulty in figuring out how the system works - (ben_tilly)
                                                                         rm - the ultimate corruptor -NT - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                             ouch! R.M. - the ultimate corruptor. -NT - (Arkadiy)
                                                                             rm -rf / - (inthane-chan)
                                                                         isnt that the beauty of nix? It does what it is commanded to - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                             Well, personally.. - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                                                 yup my intro to unix - (boxley)
                     Understood, I just meant - (tjsinclair)
             So where exactly IS NeXT Step in the mix? - (cwbrenn) - (3)
                 I believe it's the Cocoa API + Objective C -NT - (tjsinclair)
                 As I said. - (rickmoen)
                 Its the GUI lib - (tuberculosis)
             Who is Apple Computer? - (tuberculosis) - (8)
                 Pin terpsichory - (rickmoen)
                 Legal matters, GNUStep - (rickmoen) - (6)
                     Did you take a pendantic pill this morning or what? - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                         Rick get his pedantic in suppository form ;-) -NT - (drewk) - (2)
                             We have a suppository forum? - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                 flame and politics, the suppositories post there :-) -NT - (boxley)
                         But they're only application libraries! - (rickmoen) - (1)
                             You're a loony. (new thread) - (tuberculosis)
             I thought Sun bought NextStep - (boxley) - (3)
                 You're probably thinking of NeWS - (rickmoen) - (2)
                     Nope this is what I remembered Jobs and Sun, OpenStep - (boxley)
                     No, he's thinking of NextStep - (tuberculosis)
             Re: MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (karnak) - (10)
                 Re: MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (rickmoen) - (9)
                     Nothing wrong with a 68040. - (admin) - (4)
                         Semi-OT: Fatboy Slim still does all his work on an Atari ST -NT - (Meerkat) - (3)
                             That's what I used originally - (admin) - (2)
                                 Do you sound as bad? - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                     Worse. - (admin)
                     Re: MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (karnak) - (3)
                         Comparison of OpenStep & WindowMaker? - (kmself)
                         Re: MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (rickmoen)
                         Have you considered GNUStep? - (orion)
         Apple and Linux - (orion) - (1)
             Do you ever think before you type? -NT - (tuberculosis)

So yeah, this is a thing. One of those things that you come across online that makes you think, "That's enough internet for the day."
699 ms