Re: The presumption is...

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Post #70,530

by rickmoen

12/23/02 2:49:12 PM

Re: The presumption is...

Ben Tilly wrote:

The presumption is that Apple wants to keep room to have proprietary hardware with proprietary drivers whose code they don't want to release because it helps people trying to undercut their hardware sales.

Yes, that's reasonable, and could be a reason. And yet, they've not chosen to exercise that option, if they value it.

But I think the more parsimonious reason is that they already has xnu/Darwin/NeXTStep, were experts in it, and wished to keep making it.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com

If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.

Post #70,542

by ben_tilly

12/23/02 5:20:10 PM

Having the option is valuable, even if not exercised

The idea is to avoid having to face hardware competition. When potential competitors know that Apple has an advantage like that, it subtly encourages them to go into a different line of business. Which means that even if Apple never exercises the option, they may have gained value from having it.

Certainly discouraging hardware cloners has been a past priority at Apple for decades.

That said, I strongly suspect that your analysis (based on a far better understanding of the history than most of us possess) is correct.

Cheers,
Ben

"Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly."
- [link|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html|Walter Mead]

Windows Linux and Mac OS X - a new hallelujia !!! - (dmarker) - (122) - Dec. 22, 2002, 07:59:47 AM EST

Re: Windows Linux and Mac OS X - a new hallelujia !!! - (tjsinclair) - (8) - Dec. 22, 2002, 09:53:59 AM EST

Re: Windows Linux and Mac OS X - a new hallelujia !!! - (deSitter) - (2) - Dec. 22, 2002, 12:27:19 PM EST

Regarding the mouse - (tjsinclair) - (1) - Dec. 22, 2002, 05:19:04 PM EST

Re: Regarding the mouse - (deSitter) - Dec. 22, 2002, 06:37:39 PM EST

Linux kernel - (rickmoen) - (4) - Dec. 22, 2002, 11:48:09 PM EST

The presumption is... - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Dec. 23, 2002, 12:26:24 PM EST

Re: The presumption is... - (rickmoen) - (1) - Dec. 23, 2002, 02:49:12 PM EST

Having the option is valuable, even if not exercised - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 23, 2002, 05:20:10 PM EST

Nah - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 24, 2002, 09:13:03 AM EST

MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (rickmoen) - (110) - Dec. 22, 2002, 11:58:25 PM EST

I guess this is what we get - (tjsinclair) - (81) - Dec. 22, 2002, 11:49:38 PM EST

Well, no, it's not a Linux thing at all - (rickmoen) - (80) - Dec. 22, 2002, 11:55:38 PM EST

Re: Well, no, it's not a Linux thing at all - (dmarker) - (78) - Dec. 23, 2002, 01:09:54 AM EST

Workplace OS rocked - (rickmoen) - (77) - Dec. 23, 2002, 02:28:17 AM EST

good criticism, but only half right (re. filesystems) - (cwbrenn) - (8) - Dec. 23, 2002, 10:57:59 AM EST

On FAT vs HPFS - (Another Scott) - (6) - Dec. 23, 2002, 11:11:45 AM EST

Re: On FAT vs HPFS - (rickmoen) - (5) - Dec. 23, 2002, 02:45:45 PM EST

Re: On FAT vs HPFS - (deSitter) - (4) - Dec. 25, 2002, 06:55:44 AM EST

Re: On FAT vs HPFS - (Steve Lowe) - (3) - Dec. 25, 2002, 11:20:32 PM EST

Re: On FAT vs HPFS - (deSitter) - (2) - Dec. 26, 2002, 12:02:03 PM EST

3 copies now on eBay. IBM has it too for $180. -NT - (Another Scott) - Dec. 26, 2002, 01:01:04 PM EST

consider picking up eCS - (SpiceWare) - Jan. 3, 2003, 01:54:53 AM EST

Er, I did say two volumes... - (rickmoen) - Dec. 23, 2002, 02:32:37 PM EST

Partial agreement here - (tjsinclair) - (67) - Dec. 23, 2002, 12:52:09 PM EST

Thanks for that - (rickmoen) - (4) - Dec. 24, 2002, 01:26:36 AM EST

Very True (TANGENT) - (cwbrenn) - (3) - Dec. 24, 2002, 07:59:39 AM EST

Proprietary forks and threat models - (rickmoen) - (2) - Dec. 24, 2002, 01:53:08 PM EST

Dystopian Vision - (cwbrenn) - (1) - Dec. 26, 2002, 07:01:53 AM EST

Re: Dystopian Vision - (rickmoen) - Dec. 26, 2002, 04:34:53 PM EST

Accident waiting to happen - (tuberculosis) - (61) - Dec. 24, 2002, 07:15:12 PM EST

You found a way to break your files? Sorry to hear. - (rickmoen) - (60) - Dec. 24, 2002, 11:03:53 PM EST

You're wrong again as usual - stick to Linux -NT - (tuberculosis) - (59) - Dec. 25, 2002, 05:29:55 AM EST

Verily, the technopeasant priesthood has spoken - (rickmoen) - (58) - Dec. 25, 2002, 07:05:12 AM EST

You don't actually *use* the system, do you. - (tuberculosis) - (57) - Dec. 25, 2002, 09:10:39 AM EST

Unix file basics - (rickmoen) - (56) - Dec. 25, 2002, 03:34:31 PM EST

HFS File basics - (tuberculosis) - (42) - Dec. 25, 2002, 05:48:00 PM EST

Envoi - (rickmoen) - (41) - Dec. 26, 2002, 01:00:34 AM EST

You could run the correct test - (ben_tilly) - (40) - Dec. 26, 2002, 03:04:16 AM EST

This would be my cue to ask this: (new thread) - (static) - Dec. 26, 2002, 03:54:27 AM EST

Exactly - thanks -NT - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 26, 2002, 05:45:35 AM EST

I am understanding unix&tar has different capabilities? - (boxley) - (34) - Dec. 26, 2002, 12:24:36 PM EST

Not sure what you are asking - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 26, 2002, 04:40:42 PM EST

No - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Dec. 27, 2002, 07:39:16 AM EST

my point was Nix tools do not understand all file systems - (boxley) - Dec. 27, 2002, 10:32:17 AM EST

You understand wrong - (kmself) - (30) - Dec. 27, 2002, 11:39:27 AM EST

well lets try it out - (boxley) - (9) - Dec. 27, 2002, 01:03:47 PM EST

You know dam well... - (folkert) - (4) - Dec. 27, 2002, 01:37:05 PM EST

point==missed - (boxley) - (3) - Dec. 27, 2002, 03:53:29 PM EST

Windows, MAC OSX, MacOS9.x, *NIX - (folkert) - (2) - Dec. 27, 2002, 04:03:58 PM EST

ed zachery -NT - (boxley) - Dec. 27, 2002, 06:56:50 PM EST

Windows has the bigger problem... - (ChrisR) - Dec. 27, 2002, 07:46:43 PM EST

Wrong - (kmself) - (3) - Dec. 27, 2002, 07:05:36 PM EST

The reason I brought this upo was recovering files from a - (boxley) - (2) - Dec. 27, 2002, 08:09:51 PM EST

Two possible issues I can think of... - (kmself) - (1) - Dec. 27, 2002, 10:15:59 PM EST

It was over a year ago so bear with me - (boxley) - Dec. 27, 2002, 10:43:35 PM EST

Once again, Todd's explanation - (ben_tilly) - (19) - Dec. 28, 2002, 05:02:03 PM EST

Using a hammer to drive screws will hurt - (rickmoen) - (18) - Dec. 28, 2002, 08:05:12 PM EST

I understand your position perfectly - (ben_tilly) - (10) - Dec. 29, 2002, 05:23:15 PM EST

Re: I understand your position perfectly - (rickmoen) - (9) - Dec. 29, 2002, 07:17:38 PM EST

If it is not a straw man... - (ben_tilly) - (8) - Dec. 30, 2002, 06:16:31 PM EST

Re: If it is not a straw man... - (rickmoen) - (7) - Dec. 31, 2002, 10:14:16 PM EST

Funny, I concluded the same as Ben - (tuberculosis) - (6) - Jan. 2, 2003, 04:55:17 AM EST

Re: Funny, I concluded the same as Ben - (rickmoen) - (5) - Jan. 2, 2003, 05:31:20 AM EST

Little story - you might find it entertaining - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Jan. 3, 2003, 04:27:19 AM EST

Excellent story. Going on the wall. -NT - (admin) - Jan. 3, 2003, 10:21:21 AM EST

This my dear friend... (new thread) - (folkert) - Jan. 3, 2003, 11:59:25 AM EST

Since you seem to be missing the point... - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Jan. 4, 2003, 12:43:54 PM EST

Re: Since you seem to be missing the point... - (rickmoen) - Jan. 16, 2003, 04:13:56 AM EST

I do not think that word means what you think it means. - (tuberculosis) - (6) - Dec. 30, 2002, 07:52:16 AM EST

Hello, you must be going. - (rickmoen) - (5) - Dec. 30, 2002, 08:21:08 AM EST

This is obvious? - (tuberculosis) - (4) - Dec. 30, 2002, 03:47:08 PM EST

Re: This is obvious? - (rickmoen) - (3) - Dec. 31, 2002, 10:20:55 PM EST

At no time did you utter the word "obvious" - nice dodge - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Jan. 1, 2003, 03:14:02 PM EST

Re: At no time did you utter the word "obvious" - nice dodge - (rickmoen) - (1) - Jan. 1, 2003, 05:34:29 PM EST

Topic at hand - point out what you claim is "obvious" (new thread) - (tuberculosis) - Jan. 2, 2003, 05:02:05 AM EST

Basic point seems to have been missed - (rickmoen) - (2) - Dec. 26, 2002, 04:13:21 PM EST

Yes you have missed it - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 26, 2002, 04:33:37 PM EST

I see so to use OSX effectively - (boxley) - Dec. 26, 2002, 04:48:39 PM EST

Never used Apple OSes in my life, - (Arkadiy) - (12) - Dec. 30, 2002, 03:10:18 PM EST

Re: Never used Apple OSes in my life, - (rickmoen) - (11) - Dec. 31, 2002, 10:24:41 PM EST

For certain kind of user - (Arkadiy) - (10) - Jan. 1, 2003, 02:50:31 PM EST

Re: For certain kind of user - (rickmoen) - (9) - Jan. 1, 2003, 05:28:32 PM EST

Gee - got an ISBN for that manual? - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Jan. 2, 2003, 05:07:06 AM EST

Re: Gee - got an ISBN for that manual? - (rickmoen) - (1) - Jan. 2, 2003, 05:27:29 AM EST

He had no difficulty in figuring out how the system works - (ben_tilly) - Jan. 4, 2003, 12:58:00 PM EST

rm - the ultimate corruptor -NT - (Arkadiy) - (2) - Jan. 2, 2003, 12:53:27 PM EST

ouch! R.M. - the ultimate corruptor. -NT - (Arkadiy) - Jan. 3, 2003, 11:09:42 AM EST

rm -rf / - (inthane-chan) - Jan. 4, 2003, 05:34:25 PM EST

isnt that the beauty of nix? It does what it is commanded to - (boxley) - (2) - Jan. 3, 2003, 06:17:33 PM EST

Well, personally.. - (deSitter) - (1) - Jan. 3, 2003, 09:15:50 PM EST

yup my intro to unix - (boxley) - Jan. 3, 2003, 10:00:52 PM EST

Understood, I just meant - (tjsinclair) - Dec. 23, 2002, 12:35:20 PM EST

So where exactly IS NeXT Step in the mix? - (cwbrenn) - (3) - Dec. 23, 2002, 10:05:25 AM EST

I believe it's the Cocoa API + Objective C -NT - (tjsinclair) - Dec. 23, 2002, 12:54:44 PM EST

As I said. - (rickmoen) - Dec. 23, 2002, 03:25:34 PM EST

Its the GUI lib - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 23, 2002, 05:40:10 PM EST

Who is Apple Computer? - (tuberculosis) - (8) - Dec. 23, 2002, 05:36:30 PM EST

Pin terpsichory - (rickmoen) - Dec. 23, 2002, 08:19:06 PM EST

Legal matters, GNUStep - (rickmoen) - (6) - Dec. 24, 2002, 02:23:32 AM EST

Did you take a pendantic pill this morning or what? - (tuberculosis) - (5) - Dec. 24, 2002, 08:35:17 AM EST

Rick get his pedantic in suppository form ;-) -NT - (drewk) - (2) - Dec. 24, 2002, 09:40:57 AM EST

We have a suppository forum? - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Dec. 24, 2002, 02:06:16 PM EST

flame and politics, the suppositories post there :-) -NT - (boxley) - Dec. 24, 2002, 02:40:03 PM EST

But they're only application libraries! - (rickmoen) - (1) - Dec. 24, 2002, 02:29:42 PM EST

You're a loony. (new thread) - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 24, 2002, 03:11:43 PM EST

I thought Sun bought NextStep - (boxley) - (3) - Dec. 23, 2002, 08:29:26 PM EST

You're probably thinking of NeWS - (rickmoen) - (2) - Dec. 24, 2002, 12:47:55 AM EST

Nope this is what I remembered Jobs and Sun, OpenStep - (boxley) - Dec. 24, 2002, 08:39:12 AM EST

No, he's thinking of NextStep - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 24, 2002, 09:02:07 AM EST

Re: MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (karnak) - (10) - Feb. 20, 2003, 03:54:51 PM EST

Re: MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (rickmoen) - (9) - Feb. 21, 2003, 04:05:54 PM EST

Nothing wrong with a 68040. - (admin) - (4) - Feb. 21, 2003, 04:15:11 PM EST

Semi-OT: Fatboy Slim still does all his work on an Atari ST -NT - (Meerkat) - (3) - Feb. 22, 2003, 04:49:01 PM EST

That's what I used originally - (admin) - (2) - Feb. 22, 2003, 06:58:43 PM EST

Do you sound as bad? - (pwhysall) - (1) - Feb. 23, 2003, 06:01:03 AM EST

Worse. - (admin) - Feb. 23, 2003, 09:46:33 AM EST

Re: MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (karnak) - (3) - Feb. 21, 2003, 11:55:44 PM EST

Comparison of OpenStep & WindowMaker? - (kmself) - Feb. 22, 2003, 12:13:13 PM EST

Re: MacOS X is NeXTStep (and they can keep it, thanks) - (rickmoen) - Feb. 22, 2003, 06:35:47 PM EST

Have you considered GNUStep? - (orion) - Feb. 26, 2003, 08:44:31 PM EST

Apple and Linux - (orion) - (1) - Dec. 23, 2002, 08:01:27 AM EST

Do you ever think before you type? -NT - (tuberculosis) - Dec. 24, 2002, 09:06:02 AM EST

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