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New Methinks the method of the breakup outweighs the fact.
An idea of, 'Confederation of Independent States' appears to have sprung the USSR into a US pre- Civil War scenario.. all unprepared and with the focus upon the chimera of 'Capitalism' while destroying the synergy of a (truly) federal grouping by choice.

Then too, the official US laissez-faire policy, augmented with the worst of capitalist exploitation of the new kids - guaranteed to create mistrust of a whole new kind between US/ former USSR States: simple greed, dissembling in action. We stood around impotent and disinterested - rationalizing away great opportunity for real assistance and long-term mutual benefit. And the Jingoists' greatest fear was realized: nothing left to Hate! unquivocally.

(My thought at the time of Berlin wall was: had we granted the remnants a blanket half a trillion $, spread over a time that reflected their ability to use it sanely: we would have been ahead of the M.A.D. incipient oblivion game, echoed the ideals of the Marshall Plan and - probably made more $$ over the period of disbursement than we gave.) We have few with any vision, especially among the sated.. Gawd are our present Dynasts unutterably boring in their aim for ez short-term killings.

In brief - hindsight being so handy - it's easy to plot a quite different course than what has occurred: a US-aped concentration of the newly divided pie into the same sorts of pockets as in the US. As in US, where the same 3% of the GDP is shared by ~ 13,000 at the top - and 20,000,000 at the bottom, the mass of the Russ poorest got screwed with outside help from real Pros - US.

So are 'we / all' better off, despite the tawdry rapine? Yes re the reduced likelihood of MAD ICBM scenarios - but we all have done poorly compared with your hypothetical of a saner transition. Would need to know more details than I do, to estimate whether Gorbachev lacked crucial other qualities to accompany his obv intelligence, or if: the factions were simply too stubborn to ever cooperate effectively (?)

A nice what-if, but moot.. Putin has a scary side, but also is too complex a guy (like K?) to be pigeonholed with old rubrics.


Cheers,

Ashton
When the rich assemble to concern themselves with the business of the poor, it is called Charity. When the poor assemble to concern themselves with the business of the rich, it is called Anarchy.

-Paul Richards
New Re: Methinks the method of the breakup outweighs the fact.
Nicely set forth. As to " the Jingoists' greatest fear was realized: nothing left to Hate!" -- I've often wondered whether the bilious quality of American politics during the 1990s might have been partially metabolic in nature, a consequence of our being obliged to consume domestically much of the rhetorical poison we had formerly produced for export. Then again, we're back to our old patterns of Designated Hitler (yesterday al Qaeda; today Iraq--Eurasia, Eastasia, war without end)--and I've yet to descry the better angels of our nature fluttering home.

cordially,

"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New Hmmm ____the homeopathic theory of ingrained Hate
as Will Come Out.. if suppressed by the normal simplistic AMA rubric of 'treating symptoms' !! (never mind looking for a cure. No pharm-chem sales in That!)

I. Like. It.

In one swell foop you have linked a pair of our fav language atrocities into a veritable 'OS' ! with all the charm and wisdom of M$ Bob ... the little innovation which revealed the actual Campus IQ level.

{smoky mirror} {harp arpeggios suspiciously Hammond-organ like}

I see a warehouse full of various sized packets, each labelled Hate\ufffd \ufffd, juuuust Like that warehous full of gaily-wrapped Bob! boxes.

[Advertainment 'man']: Hey.. let's market this here; tell 'em it's corn-fed from Iowa and it's part of the RDA for all Real Muricans - and.. Mail-In rebate for your next Service Pack of 99.44% pure Malice! Yup, it'll fly.. in this dense atmosphere.


Tis the Season to be Jolly* == IT's the pre-WAR SEASON! :-)

(now the Brits attach a rather different meaning to That word)
When the rich assemble to concern themselves with the business of the poor, it is called Charity. When the poor assemble to concern themselves with the business of the rich, it is called Anarchy.

-Paul Richards
New Hitlers without end.
I'll take a different tack than Ashton.

It isn't that we have to hate anyone or anything.

It is that we don't know how to NOT hate anyone or anything anymore.

Rather than taking that energy and working to build ourselves up (is this the best we can accomplish).....

We take the easy route of finding a scape goat for all the problems in the world.

If we could just get Osama, terrorism would end.

If we could just get Saddam, the mid-east would be peaceful.

The beauty of this system is that there will always be ANOTHER Hitler. Someone, somewhere is doing something that goes against our basic, democratic, humanitarian beliefs.

This is because we are funding most of them in some manner.

The US is in decline. We cannot conceive of greater accomplishments. Well, we can think about conceiving them. But that's as far as we ever get. We put the first man on the moon. But we still haven't made it to Mars. Nor does it look like the USofA ever will. And so on.

We've stopped trying to be better and we've substituted the Hitler du jour to give us the illusion that we're still alive.
New But Hatred is always derived from Fear.
And when you are possessed of the illusions of Disneyland sanitized Murica, there's always that Downhill you mention - to Fear.

The Homo-bashing callow male? - well, we know what That Fear is about. Ditto the Fundamentalist - My (S)creed is dying out! Hate Louder !! yada

Especially when you look around and notice that your 'sliding' is accelerating.. Maybe what the Murican Dreamer hates most then, is Gravity?


Ashton
When the rich assemble to concern themselves with the business of the poor, it is called Charity. When the poor assemble to concern themselves with the business of the rich, it is called Anarchy.

-Paul Richards
     Long time, no Sov - (rcareaga) - (40)
         From the Left, I'm Mike Moffitt. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
             Re: From the Left, I'm Mike Moffitt. - (rcareaga) - (1)
                 You'd like Taosim. - (mmoffitt)
         Turn that around - (ben_tilly) - (19)
             Re: Turn that around - (rcareaga) - (18)
                 Not begging the question - (ben_tilly) - (17)
                     Re: Nuclear Holocaust. - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                         Re: Nuclear Holocaust (10/62) - (rcareaga) - (7)
                             I think that applies a lot. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                 f you use the word civilian in your sentence - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Sorry, I didn't clarify that sufficiently. - (Brandioch)
                             Re: The stakes. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                 Defensive: an example. - (Ashton)
                                 Re: The stakes. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                     Of course! that is the "other side" - (Ashton)
                     Re: Not begging the question - (rcareaga) - (7)
                         I don't think that assumption of yours is right - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                             Re: I don't think that assumption of yours is right - (rcareaga) - (5)
                                 Um, the US needs enemies - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                     Re: Um, the US needs enemies - (rcareaga) - (3)
                                         ya go for the one you can find - (boxley)
                                         Does this explain...? - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                             bingo! -NT - (rcareaga)
         from the fringes I'm boxley - (boxley) - (9)
             an additional thought - (rcareaga) - (8)
                 as you said, veritas in vino - (boxley) - (2)
                     Re: as you said, veritas in vino - (rcareaga) - (1)
                         betrayed bosses meaning fathers of our country :-) -NT - (boxley)
                 Couldn't agree more. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                     what disney book did you read that in? -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                         Being there (USSR), 5 universities, numerous lectures, etc. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                             not a prob will get to it in a bit in a new thread -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                 Here we go rebuttal to mmoffet on Founding Land Grants (new thread) - (boxley)
         Methinks the method of the breakup outweighs the fact. - (Ashton) - (4)
             Re: Methinks the method of the breakup outweighs the fact. - (rcareaga) - (3)
                 Hmmm ____the homeopathic theory of ingrained Hate - (Ashton)
                 Hitlers without end. - (Brandioch) - (1)
                     But Hatred is always derived from Fear. - (Ashton)
         Winding it up - (rcareaga) - (1)
             Don't be a stranger.. :-) - (Ashton)

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