Post #6,750
8/27/01 1:00:37 AM
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Americans are constantly bitched at . .
. . for not learning other languages. Well, we don't because it just doesn't make sense.
The problem is simple. Suppose I spend a lot of time learning French. Now, if I go to France, my grasp of French will provide some amusement for the natives, but France is such a small part of the world and so far away. Anywhere else, I'm more likely to find people who speak English.
Even right here at home, what should I learn? Chinese? Spanish? Farsi? Vietnamese? Korean? Russian? French? Every one of these is spoken by a sizeable percentage of the population of Los Angeles, but which one would I benefit from? With the exception of Vietnamese I have clients that speak every one of these languages. But by time I could learn any one of these, they'll all be speaking fluent English, and not as a "second language" either.
Do some of them have words for which there is no English equivalent? Not a problem - that'll be an English word in sort order. We do not have a language purity police here (though there are more than a few high school English teachers who'd be more than happy to volunteer).
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #6,758
8/27/01 1:56:17 AM
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The only-logical view ever fails, though
Learning even One-more er 'romance language' in school - also gives a feel for the roots of both: Latin (which is 'spoken' only by insufferable academics yet.. Lives! as the core of any new words we try to coin, ever)
{sigh} It is also something.. about empathy or simply - an intro to not-fearing Difference (?) maybe. And if one cares just a tiny bit - most anyone Can grasp travel- French, German... maybe notmuch Czech - but Cyrillic is Fun.
Anyway it is about emotional quality and expansion of one's mind, much more than the 'utility' of having a built-in translator table. And.. mere trying.. always counts! Muricans are among only a few worldwide groupings who think it 'funny' when a visitor has a poor grasp of our Engrisch in its various dialects -- which some of Us don't get either..
In Quebec - surely an archetype for No English Pollution Here!, my meager French was enough (and saying, un peu de beurre, s'il vous pla\ufffdt? was downright Fun!) "A little butter, please.." - the 'beurre' has a nice roll to it.. you have to open throat, while saying it - and then you can do it just Right after a few tries. Small victories..
As a consequence of just trying though, Magically my necessary Engl. words later - were understood and with smiles.
Anyway.. *That's* the 'reason' why our lazy, smug attitudes prompt such as the prevailing gag then, around Laval U in Quebec:
What do you call a person who speaks two languages? "A bilingue". What do you call a person who speaks three languages? "A trilingue". What do you call a person who speaks one language? "An American".
A. Sorry you missed out..
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Post #6,780
8/27/01 10:21:12 AM
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I heard it was un bloke(bloc)
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves. Chuck Palahniuk
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Post #6,790
8/27/01 11:27:09 AM
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Brings back a memory.
In 1972 or 1973 I "dragged" my family up to the Gaspe Peninsula in Quebec to see a total eclipse of the sun, the last total of the 20th century in North America, blah, blah. Anyway, it's the boonies and the folks there speak only French. The wife took French in high school and a year in college. No problem, right? Wrong! She learned Parisian French and these folks speak a local dialect of "antique" French. The funniest part, to me, was how long it took her to get across an order for milk for the kids.
Alex
Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel. -- Anne Frank
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Post #6,806
8/27/01 12:37:46 PM
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Ordering poached eggs in Greece.
I was in Greece for a conference a few years ago. Some acquaintences and I shared breakfast one morning. We were making small talk and he said he'd been trying the whole trip to get an order of poached eggs for breakfast but nobody understood.
When the waiter came to take our order he tried to order poached eggs, but the waiter didn't understand. So we went through a long drawn-out hand play of filling a pan with water, cracking eggs, etc., etc. and kept saying "POACHed eggs". He didn't understand. After 2-3 minutes of this, the waiter finally grinned and said...
"Oh! Poch-AY-ed eggs!"
:-)
Languages are funny beasts. It taught me that accents convey a lot that you don't realize until you visit a foreign land.
Cheers, Scott.
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Post #6,811
8/27/01 12:52:20 PM
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Try ordering...
"Sweet Tea" in South Carlina versus Kansas
Or for that matter, order just about anything in New Mexico and be ready to answer "Red Or Green?" (and there are three good answers...)
Or order a Coke in Georgia and be ready for "what kind?"
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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Post #6,949
8/28/01 9:48:20 AM
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THREE good answers?!?
Or for that matter, order just about anything in New Mexico and be ready to answer "Red Or Green?" (and there are three good answers...) I beg to differ. There is only one good answer: "Green!" You'd actually consider a Lotaburger with Red? Are you outcherfukinmind? ;-)
jb4 Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #6,958
8/28/01 11:16:06 AM
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Re: THREE good answers?!?
I beg to differ. There is only one good answer: "Green!"
Depends on the food. I prefer cheeseburgers with Green but Frito Pies with Red. Chicken goes best with green but eggs work well with red.
For those who don't know, the third answer is "Christmas", which means both Red and Green chile
You'd actually consider a Lotaburger with Red?
I wouldn't; I'd consider a "Ranchero Supreme" from Bob's Burgers with Green :)
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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Post #6,995
8/28/01 2:05:17 PM
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It's true...
...eggs do go better with red.
It's been too long, so I've forgotten some of the subtleties. I apologize and recognize your superior wisdom and understanding! ;-)
BTW, What is Bob's Burgers? Am unfamiliar with this outfit. Please enlighten...
jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #7,001
8/28/01 3:30:35 PM
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Maybe, maybe not
I apologize and recognize your superior wisdom and understanding! ;-)
Living here in Albuquerque, I just get more exposure. Won't claim it as wisdom :)
BTW, What is Bob's Burgers?
They are a local chain of burger joints; perhaps four throughout town. They make really good burgers with soem very hot green chili if you want it. The "Ranchero Supreme" is their flagship green chili burger. The cool part is that you can order either a 'single' or 'double' (patties) in either small or large patty sizes. A "Double Large Ranchero Supreme" is a pretty hefty meal. If you're not that hungry, you can order a "Single Large" or "Double Small", etc...
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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Post #7,002
8/28/01 4:10:07 PM
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Sounds DELICIOUS!
Do they deliver to Waukegan (IL)?
jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #7,004
8/28/01 4:22:13 PM
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Unfortunately, not
...the greasy burgers don't travel well...gotta eat 'em hot!
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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Post #7,011
8/28/01 5:23:16 PM
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Green chili, schmili
I have Habanero peppers in my freezer and that is a delayed tangy burn.
Of course any restaurant that served a Habanero-based hot food would probably eventually get sued out of business. Like the old lady with the McDonald's coffee, there'd be complaints: "Jeez, I didn't realize it would be that hot."
(Fan of Dave's Insanity Sauce, and happy to have found a local supply.)
French Zombies are zapping me with lasers!
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Post #7,014
8/28/01 5:43:03 PM
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Actually...
I used to carry a bottle of Habenero ("Hot Sauce From Hell") chili sauce with me when I traveled....
Of course any restaurant that served a Habanero-based hot food would probably eventually get sued out of business.
...and would take it out in restaurants and put it on whatever local food I was eating.
There are restaurants around here that use Habenero chilis in their food.
There are even restaurants where you cannot get the hottest chili foods unless you know the chef and the chef knows you can handle it
IIRC - the real difference between red and green is when they are harvested.
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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Post #7,016
8/28/01 5:55:09 PM
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That's exactly right...
IIRC - the real difference between red and green is when they are harvested. Correct. Red chilis are "ripe", while the green are still maturing. Now, Mr. wharris2, you're right about habaneros. But for me, I prefer flavor with my heat; it is my nsHO that Hab's are hot for hot sake, and add basically no flavor to a dish. New Mexican chilis, on the other hand, be they red or green, have a flavor all their own, and add both taste and heat to a dish. They may not be as hot as a Hab (actually, very little else in this world is), but I'll take the flavor of a Middle Rio Grande chili ANYTIME!
jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #7,018
8/28/01 6:04:23 PM
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Sorta..
Habeneros are good for the endorphin release and in getting your 'hit' if you're into very hot chili dishes.
So you are right that they are only hot for heat sake, with not much flavor, but that's all some people want them for :)
But I agree that a good flavored chile, regardless of temperature, is a great spice to almost any dish
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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Post #7,040
8/28/01 10:39:34 PM
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Re: Sorta..
I always felt that a habanero was more flavorful than a jalapeno, scoville unit for scoville unit. The flavor's why I switched from using jalapenos to habs in my green chile. Not to mention using less chile for the same horsepower. I'd like to try one roasted. The jalapeno, for my money, has had its time.
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Post #7,020
8/28/01 6:09:44 PM
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Also, forgot...
...preperation of the chili can make a large difference in the heat. Freezing and thawing will boost heat output, for example
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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Post #7,044
8/28/01 11:16:36 PM
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You're wrong in the flavor
I think Habaneros have more flavor than the red peppers or jalepenos; they have a tart, slightly bitter but not quite so taste. (If you're crazy like me, nibble on one someday, it's interesting. Have plenty of water or beer on hand.) Red peppers or jalepenos don't really seem to have much of a taste to them, other than burning on the tongue.
French Zombies are zapping me with lasers!
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Post #7,067
8/29/01 9:23:03 AM
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I'm not talking about Jalapenos...
...I'm talking about New Mexico chilis. Hatch chilis. Belen chilis. Alameda 12s and 24s. Those big, fat, long suckers that are grown in the Middle Rio Grande valley of New Mexico south of Albuquerque.
cf. La Casita on Business Loop Socorro south of Spring street (assuming, of course, it's still there). Best example of the genre I've found to date (although I will certainly defer to Freep's more up-to-date knowledge and experience for another, better example).
jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
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Post #7,069
8/29/01 9:48:54 AM
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I thought they were wimpy peppers (Biker Billy)
At least, Bill Hufnagle ("Biker Billy Cooks with FIre") seems to imply it, by his selection of peppers in his book.
BTW, it's a great book for tasty yet hot recipes. Don't know if it's still available; copyright 1995.
French Zombies are zapping me with lasers!
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Post #7,046
8/28/01 11:27:46 PM
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Ah, fond memories
There are even restaurants where you cannot get the hottest chili foods unless you know the chef and the chef knows you can handle it. There used to be such a restaurant near where I worked; I used to go there with several of my coworkers quite frequently. The guy who originally brought me to the place advised the chef that I was somewhat resistant to normal heat. (Apparently, before I came onto the scene, the chef had won the battle of the chili's against him.) I don't think he was ever quite able to win against me. (It was a Chinese/Mongolian restaurant, where you could order *spicy* Kung Pao if the chef knew you.) I did walk out of that place with sweat running down my head on occasion. Sigh. Out of business, not because of spices but because of marital difficulties in the family that ran the place.
If it doesn't hurt coming out, it wasn't worth going in.
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Post #7,064
8/29/01 8:52:53 AM
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ouch!
If it doesn't hurt coming out, it wasn't worth going in.
*THAT* brings back some memories I'd just as soon forget :)
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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Post #7,038
8/28/01 10:25:24 PM
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Green chili, schmili give me seal oil! No seal oil? Thai red
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves. Chuck Palahniuk
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Post #7,039
8/28/01 10:30:37 PM
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Re: Green chili, schmili
There's a fast food chicken store nearby ("Cluck-U Chicken") that advertises 20 different types of hot sauce and have you sign a waiver, which in addition to other releases, requires you not touch your eyes with your hands after eating. I've seen the waiver, it looked official but still may have been tongue in (chili-fied) cheek.
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Post #7,070
8/29/01 9:53:47 AM
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Re: Green chili, schmili
Are you in Ft. Collins, CO?
The a Cluck-U Chicken in Ft. Collins, recently went out of business from what I understand though..
----- Steve
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Post #7,257
8/30/01 3:48:59 PM
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Re: Green chili, schmili
Must be national because the place I was in was in Maryland.
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Post #7,071
8/29/01 9:54:13 AM
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Re: Green chili, schmili
Are you in Ft. Collins, CO?
There's a Cluck-U Chicken in Ft. Collins, recently went out of business from what I understand though..
----- Steve
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Post #7,293
8/30/01 9:41:38 PM
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And around the world
If a Malay meets a Mexican in Madagascar, mooting mining in Mongolia --
English. Though the denizens of Punkin Center may have trouble following it.
I tell my foreign friends two things:
First, and most important, English is the language where everyone has an accent. No purity here, no Ecole Nationale to specify what's English and what ain't. Bar a few individual cases where it implies low class, an accent in English just means you ain't from around here. Who you callin' a bumpkin, boy? :-) So you don't know English well? Tackle it anyway. If somebody won't try to follow, it says much more about them than it does the earnest experimenter.
Second, it's not haute cuisine, it's mulligan stew. Listen a while, and you're likely to hear your own, native language in there someplace -- maybe in the minority, but it'd be pretty unusual to fail to find something. And if you don't -- use one of your own words! If it catches the fancy of the general population of English speakers, you might hear Jennings say it someday.
I'm blanking on the name, but a SF writer once wrote a novel in which the central idea was that the races in this neck of the Galaxy were only partial; that a precursor race, faced with an enemy it couldn't defeat, split itself into multiple parts using genetic engineering. Then think back on "Indo-European". Sometime in the dim dead past, there weren't that many humans, and it stretches the imagination to consider that they had multiple languages. Maybe English is the way you put it back together again, the Ur-tongue of the hunter-gatherers (or scavenger-gatherers, if you like that picture better). Reassembling the Tower of Babel, with steel reinforcement [and Kodak ads, more than likely, not to mention sponsorship from Coca Cola].
It don't bother me, but then I'm a native English speaker, and a gap-toothed redneck to boot. Just don't be so sure about the cultural imperialism bit. I'm still not convinced that it's not simple: we (English speakers) figured out the most efficient and effective way to live. Proper thing to do is steal it from us... this is not to say something better won't come along someday. But when it does, we'll debate it in English, at least at first.
Regards, Ric
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Post #6,783
8/27/01 10:51:43 AM
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France is just a small part of the world?
Has anyone told the French?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
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Post #6,789
8/27/01 11:21:08 AM
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Yes, but they found it impossible to believe
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #6,833
8/27/01 2:59:43 PM
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It's EZ: "Any'thing' in omniverse I Don't Know of": *ISN'T*
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Post #6,837
8/27/01 3:12:53 PM
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It does make travelling more fun, though...
It's been my experience that in order to have a good time travelling in a foreign country, it's not actually necessary to speak the language. It's only necessary to try. Most people are flattered when they see that you, the exotic visitor from a distant land, find their country and customs so interesting that are trying to speak their language. Then, since they're happy, they'll go out of their way to make you happy.
Personally, I want to learn a lot of languages. First, I want to relearn Tamil and learn Sanskrit, so that a) I can speak to all my relatives in India, and b) understand what's going on during religious services. Next, I want to learn Spanish and Cantonese, because they are probably the two most common non-English languages I run into in the US. Japanese and French would be nice, for anime and art flicks, but not strictly necessary.
But sadly, it appears to be much harder to learn human languages than programming languages. :/
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Post #6,905
8/27/01 9:35:30 PM
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Yes, they like you trying.
I found that in Japan. They were taken with the fact you were trying to communicate in their language. Of course, the Japanese are almost always nice to tourists anyway...
Wade.
"All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
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Post #7,239
8/30/01 2:28:27 PM
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They don't comprehend the SIZE of our country
In Europe, they're used to being able to get to another country, where another language must be known, with a few hours of inexpensive travel(as opposed to air travel). For a majority of the USA, a few hours travel is still within the USA(and sometimes still in the same state as here in Texas).
We also only border 2 countries, one of which speaks English(except for the French seperationalists).
Darrell Spice, Jr.
[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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