Post #66,300
12/2/02 11:42:14 PM
|
FAT32?
Are you nucking FUTS?
Get them partitions converted, you headcase.
NTFS, for all its sins, is head and shoulders above FAT32. FAT32 is fragile, slow and wasteful - and also doesn't support any of the Good Things that NTFS does like security, compression, metadata journalling etc.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
|
Post #66,305
12/2/02 11:59:02 PM
|
Re: FAT32?
We don't need FS lectures, sonny.
NTFS also changes at a whim, can't be resized, and still after all these years has only beta support r/w. HPFS has all the things you mentioned and is open.
Yes, on a Windows-only server NTFS is "better". On a workstation - why bother?
-drl
|
Post #66,306
12/3/02 12:00:37 AM
|
Can't be resized?
Yes it can.
If you're running FAT32 in preference to NTFS, then yes, you *do* need FS lectures, sonny.
Why bother? Faster and more robust, that's why.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
|
Post #66,308
12/3/02 12:09:31 AM
|
Re: Can't be resized? - no
Not unless you have an NDA with MS. It's not open. It's the openness, stupid.
-drl
|
Post #66,309
12/3/02 12:10:37 AM
|
Sure it can.
PartitionMagic 7 resizes NTFS partitions.
You can resize partitions yourself if you're using dynamic disks.
But so what? If you wanted *open*, you wouldn't be running *FUCKING WINDOWS*, would you?
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
|
Post #66,315
12/3/02 12:29:34 AM
|
PQ has NDA with Borg
I want open. I run Windows and Linux. We all live together in a sonorous harmony.
-drl
|
Post #66,317
12/3/02 12:39:30 AM
|
Re: PQ has NDA with Borg
I want open. I run Windows and Linux. We all live together in a sonorous harmony. That's a bit like saying "I want to sit in the tiger's cage, but I don't want it to eat me." Get over it. Windows is a proprietary operating system. NTFS is its FS. FAT32 is legacy, and it's shite. You chose this path.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
|
Post #66,314
12/3/02 12:27:55 AM
|
Not faster either
In fact, DOS FAT with its enormous clusters and no user context is the fastest FS of all. Speed is not the issue. It's not faster.
Robust? In what sense? Because only NT can r/w it, you need to be running NT to repair it. But how, if the install is dead? FAT32 can be repaired from a boot floppy (as can Linux and ext2).
-drl
|
Post #66,319
12/3/02 12:42:17 AM
|
Faster.
Yes, faster.
Whether you like it or not, NTFS is faster.
Don't believe me? Try copying a 50GB file between NTFS partitions. Now do it between FAT32 partitions.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
|
Post #66,322
12/3/02 12:53:02 AM
|
Re: Faster.
50GB? One file? What kind of benchmark is that?
I can see the little folders flying...
NTFS is slower in the real world, with lots of fixed-place programs and small files, like browser cache and secretary letters.
-drl
|
Post #66,326
12/3/02 12:58:57 AM
|
Whatever.
The real world is people doing digital video of their kids.
The real world is 80G of MP3, Ogg and WMA files.
The real world is where NTFS outperforms FAT32 every fucking time.
Just because you WANT it to be slower doesn't make it so.
FAT32 is dead. Get over it.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
|
Post #66,411
12/3/02 11:31:22 AM
|
Re: Whatever.
Do you think I was born yesterday? I've been dealing with NTFS since you were in school! Simple common sense tells you that NTFS is GUARANTEED slower because of the security and journaling overhead *in most real world situations*, assuming the same level of fragmentation and similar disk layout (cluster size etc). Unless the disk is badly fragmented, FAT32 results in less head motion (you can see this with your own eyes). NTFS has an advantage in speed of directory listings because of the MFT - thus if many, many tiny files are stored in a complex directory structure, with at least some of those directories having hundreds and hundreds of entries, there can be a significant performance increase. But who has a disk setup like that? For an applications-oriented disk, this *single* speed advantage of NTFS is moot. The only case I can think of where this might be significant is say a browser cache that is enormous on a machine with a high-speed network link.
For very large files, the actual file system is almost irrelevant and the main issues are cluster size and fragmentation.
-drl
|
Post #66,311
12/3/02 12:24:06 AM
|
Re: FAT32?
NTFS partitions can be resized. I've done it on this very machine with Partition Magic running Win2K/NTFS. (Does fips do NTFS? Never checked..)
AFAICT, the only valid reason to run FAT32 in lieu of NTFS would be on a multi-boot machine where you wanted to be able to mount the windows partition R/W from Linux.
-----
Steve
|
Post #66,316
12/3/02 12:30:56 AM
|
PQ has NDA with Borg
-drl
|
Post #66,318
12/3/02 12:40:34 AM
|
No really relevant..
..as you said it couldn't be done. I'd imagine that more than just Peter Steve and I have resized ntfs partitions. PartitionMagic is one of a very few programs that I have bought and kept current through many upgrade cycles.
If you play around with OS's...its a must have ap...even if they did sign a deal with the Borg (it does Linux filesystems and hpfs also)
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #66,320
12/3/02 12:48:54 AM
|
Re: No really relevant..
I said - it could not be done unless you had an NDA with MS.
Now, why is this important?
Let's say you get a laptop with XP preinstalled. You fire it up, XP installs itself, and now you cannot install Linux unless you buy a piece of software that pays yet another MS tax - that is, YOU pay it.
So, you install Linux FIRST, and do the resizing, before XP gets its shots in. Even then you have a big hda1 that Linux cannot read/write. Not a good setup.
-drl
|
Post #66,323
12/3/02 12:53:25 AM
|
So?
Don't buy a computer with Windows on it, then.
Windows can't read/write your reiserfs partitions either, but you're not bitching about that.
I repeat: if you're running Windows, "open" is just a word to describe a door that's not closed. It's certainly got nothing to do with your computer.
This is not a comment about the quality of either Windows or Linux - it's just an observation.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
|
Post #66,750
12/4/02 6:32:31 PM
|
Resierfs access from NT/XP
Google for "reiser4win", there's a tool which provide read-only access from Windows. There are also ext2fs file manglers offering access to ext2 (and presumably ext3) filesystems. --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
|
Post #66,765
12/4/02 8:21:55 PM
|
Betchya can guess what I'm gonna say...
[link|http://p-nand-q.com/e/reiserfs.html|Reiser4Win is now --> RFSTOOL]
[link|http://www.it.fht-esslingen.de/~zimmerma/software/ltools.htm|LTOOLS for Windows RW access for Ext2]
Some older docs at [link|http://penguin.cz/~mhi/fs/|File-Systems HOWto]
I like this [link|http://www.penguin.cz/~mhi/mbtmgr/|MATTsoft Boot Manager], haven't used it yet... but working on it.
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]
Your friendly Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
Use your computer, we'll sample your DNA and imprint your eyes.
SELECT * FROM politicians WHERE iq > 40 OR WHERE ego < 1048575;
0 rows found
|
Post #66,332
12/3/02 1:10:46 AM
12/3/02 1:12:32 AM
|
No...you didn't.
You said flatly it couldn't be done. NTFS also changes at a whim, can't be resized, and still after all these years has only beta support r/w. Now you've invented this MS tax thing. If you are running windows (which you obviously are)...then why the fuck are you bitching about the Windows tax. PM is a utility that everyone should have. ESPECIALLY if you are installing multiple operating systems. I don't give a shit where their money goes..as long as it has the fitness of purpose for which I paid...which it does...many times over. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Edited by bepatient
Dec. 3, 2002, 01:12:32 AM EST
|
Post #66,371
12/3/02 7:58:34 AM
|
Ab-so-fraggin-lutely!
PM is a utility that everyone should have. ESPECIALLY if you are installing multiple operating systems.
Nog that shit! I wouldn't be without it.
I don't give a shit where their money goes..as long as it has the fitness of purpose for which I paid...which it does...many times over.
You've actually PAID for yours? You're hanging out in the wrong places. (wink, wink; nudge, nudge)
|
Post #66,382
12/3/02 9:57:33 AM
|
There are some things...
...for which I will pay. PM is one. Virus updates for Norton AV is another.
I hang out in those places...but usually only get Microsoft products there ;-)
stylewhack n3jja
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #66,385
12/3/02 10:16:13 AM
|
Re: There are some things...
Well, if I were in play mode I'd need a copy - but all I needed was a one-time divvy of my disk for 2k, 98, and Linux. Why spend $100 for a one-shot operation?
-drl
|
Post #66,399
12/3/02 11:02:56 AM
|
Simple
And this happens to my multi-boot machines all the time...
At some point the work involved on one of the partitions may become storage intensive...at which point PM allows you to reduce one partitions size and expand anothers...my laptop sees this activity on a regular basis...where I recently needed a dos only environment for a project (needed to reinstall and run a legacy reporting package) ...created the partition...installed dos and all necessary files...and did so in minutes. This was work related...not play...and the flexibility that PM allows and the time it saves is well worth every penny I have ever paid to Powerquest.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #66,401
12/3/02 11:08:40 AM
|
Whatever
I'll never be part of the Collective, it seems.
I'm often amazed at how often being wrong seems to infect more or less everyone in more or less the same way.
-drl
|
Post #66,404
12/3/02 11:17:34 AM
|
Relax man...
...I've been a walking advertisement for PartitionMagic since the utility was released. Just trying to show you how useful that investment (or lack thereof in Jim's case) can be.
You didn't see utility in paying for a one-off (you could ask Jim where >those< places are ;-) ) and I can absolutley respect that...but I find the thing so damned useful that I thought I could point out another use that may make acquiring a copy useful for you.
There are less than half a dozen software applications that have ever made that "must have current at all times" list with me. PM is one of them.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #66,406
12/3/02 11:23:27 AM
|
Soooo.....
PM is one of them. So you're saying you aren't troubled by Partition Magic's Success...? Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #66,409
12/3/02 11:26:19 AM
|
*chuckle*
|
Post #66,430
12/3/02 12:56:07 PM
|
what are you laughing at ??? :-) navarone n3jja
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #66,432
12/3/02 1:01:46 PM
12/3/02 1:02:38 PM
|
*mauser bepatient*
Which is most appropriate considering the French comment made elsewhere.
*ROFL*
Edited by n3jja
Dec. 3, 2002, 01:02:38 PM EST
|
Post #66,408
12/3/02 11:25:37 AM
|
Now just a minute....
I've been a walking advertisement for PartitionMagic since the utility was released.
SHILL!!! SHILL!!! (Well if was good enough for Peter...... ;-P)
Just trying to show you how useful that investment (or lack thereof in Jim's case) can be.
Watch it! I resemble that remark.... ;-)
*stylewhack2 bepatient*
|
Post #66,395
12/3/02 10:50:43 AM
|
*whackamole bepatient*
There are some things...
...for which I will pay. PM is one.
I don't since they abandoned HPFS. Call it a mild form of protest, if you like.
Virus updates for Norton AV is another.
I pay for those because my "significant other" is heavily dependent on The Beast, but personally I don't use NAV (no current version that runs on OS/2, even if I were to run any AV on OS/2 in the first place (which I don't)).
I'm not booted into Winders enough to justify running NAV and I certainly don't have anything on that partition that I can't restore in 2 hours or less (probably more like 1 hour).
|
Post #66,445
12/3/02 3:21:08 PM
|
free AV
why not go to [link|http://www.grisoft.com|Free AV s/w] and get this for your sig. other
Can't beat the price and it can be set to update automatically
A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
|
Post #66,461
12/3/02 5:42:01 PM
|
Cool....
...thanks. Hows the overhead?
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #66,607
12/4/02 10:10:37 AM
|
Re: Cool....
uses about 2 megs when it loads but inches up if you run the scans every nite and of course scan all email to maybe 8-9 megs
A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
|
Post #66,637
12/4/02 11:54:53 AM
12/4/02 11:55:24 AM
|
A little heavier than NAV...
...but cheaper by far ;-)
I'll give it a head to head on home machines...see what happens.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Edited by bepatient
Dec. 4, 2002, 11:55:24 AM EST
|
Post #66,380
12/3/02 9:03:46 AM
|
I like my blubber-32....
But I can convert to NTFS whenever I feel the need or desire or mandate...
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]
Your friendly Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
Use your computer, we'll sample your DNA and imprint your eyes.
SELECT * FROM politicians WHERE iq > 40 OR WHERE ego < 1048575;
0 rows found
|
