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New I basically agree, but would make one distinction...
That distinction being that the voucher program, unlike a parochial school under the current system, takes funds away (re-allocates) from the public general fund and could harm general public education if we resort to some hybrid system. Parents that can most afford to "pay a premium" for their child's education enroll them in parochial schools, much the same way that Ivy Leagues operate. There are a certain number of scholarships, etc... but by and large, it is a "separate but equal" solution. But I really don't wish to go there...

Where I want to go is... My fear is... Let's suppose that we moved to a true voucher system. I can't see how this will be any better than what currently exists. There will only be so many openings in the "good" schools (roughly the equivalent to the charter schools in large public systems) and there will be limited openings in the "new private/parochial" schools which will most probably take the voucher equivalent as a base tuition and then add a "premium" to that to keep out the riffraff (the poor inner city kids) and all of a sudden we have the parents of those kids sending their kids to voucher subsidized crappy inner city schools... I know I am assuming a lot of negative events which may or may not come to pass, but the previous scenerio is possible (and in my opinion, probable).

Two things stand out in my fear, one is that the only people that will benefit from the afformentioned probable scenario are the parents who currently are sending their kids to private schools (wealthy and or middle class) and the people least likely to benefit are the poor.

Two other things to keep in mind, first, that I didn't vote - but I agree with Bush's educational plan as a bandaid (not that I trust that he personally cares, per se, but I trust his wife does) for at least some accountability in the current system. Second, what I was stating above all else in my last response (probably poorly - I'm a public school grad :-0 ) is that I believe that no matter what structural form the schools take, we need to take a much harder look at the curricula. Throughout the history of American education there has been a vocational vrs liberal arts pendulum that takes about 20 years to swing each way... The end of the industrial age and now, in this transitional period, requires us, as a society, to re-evaluate what is a minimun "requirement" for a productive citizen in a democratic society...

In other words, I'm affraid that no matter which system - modified current or voucher - unless we address the curriculum problem, we may still not get the results we want.
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer


Living is easy with eyes closed
misunderstanding all you see,
it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out
it doesn't matter much to me


J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
New Damned earthquakes...
...they always happen when you agree with me ;-)

Full agreement re: curriculum. It needs to be changed. There are also several well funded groups researching the application of technology to the teaching process...in order to bring the methods current for our Nintendo-ized children.

Re: vouchers. I honestly wish they weren't necessary. There needs to be some type of qualification system in order to keep the effect of vouchers "progressive" re: income levels. After all...the point is to improve the low end...and the suburbs around here arent't the problem (in general)

In Philly, though, there are alot of available slots in parochials...many are struggling to stay open...so vouchers here (strongly opposed) would assist in keeping class sizes down in publics while keeping parochials open...yes funding would transfer over...to which >other fixes< would need to be applied...one is the sheer amount of waste involved in the administration process.

The current "privitization" happening in Philly at the behest of the state is not the answer (surprise Ashton...I >don't< like it nor do I support it).
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     do the apologists want to explain here? - (boxley) - (110)
         First you're right....But you're wrong - (jb4) - (109)
             Ditto. -NT - (Brandioch)
             voted against the class size ammendment and demo for gov - (boxley) - (103)
                 Great ideas....bad laws - (bepatient) - (102)
                     Bullshit. - (mmoffitt) - (101)
                         Hmm... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                             Re: Hmm... ___[argument impossible here] - (Ashton)
                         It Is All Fear - (deSitter) - (4)
                             it may well end up in open class warfare - (boxley) - (3)
                                 Box-this sounds positively Left-Wing! - (jb4) - (2)
                                     Contrary to popular belief... - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                         close enough when both the left and the right want to lock - (boxley)
                         Oh puleaze - (bepatient) - (93)
                             Ross ain't all wrong. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (92)
                                 But in this case, you certainly are. -NT - (bepatient) - (91)
                                     How can I be wrong about my own observations? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (90)
                                         Better wrong than.. too far Right, no? -NT - (Ashton) - (2)
                                             Okay. Count them. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                 Well... - (folkert)
                                         never mind -NT - (bepatient) - (86)
                                             Yup.. mindless threads just grow__ like - (Ashton) - (85)
                                                 Disprove it then, cowards. Give a Repo as a counter-example. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (84)
                                                     sorry what are you refering to? -NT - (boxley)
                                                     These (examples) are Legion, of course.. - (Ashton) - (81)
                                                         Stick it up.... - (bepatient) - (52)
                                                             Well, then, take up mmoffitt's challenge - (jb4) - (51)
                                                                 Start at the top (f*****g bog) - (bepatient) - (50)
                                                                     Re: Start at the top (f*****g bog) - (deSitter) - (49)
                                                                         No it wasn't. - (bepatient) - (48)
                                                                             Minor correction: - (jb4) - (47)
                                                                                 <i>Zing!</i> - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                                                     I like tomatoes. - (bepatient)
                                                                                 Guess you can't read. - (bepatient) - (43)
                                                                                     I can - (deSitter) - (8)
                                                                                         Well maybe... - (bepatient) - (7)
                                                                                             Beep, sorry, gotta disagree here... - (inthane-chan) - (6)
                                                                                                 Exactly who are you disgreeing with? - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                                                                     Mea culpa. - (inthane-chan) - (4)
                                                                                                         Well... - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                             That's what I get for jumping in the middle of a thread... - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                                                                                                 Oh, it's hardly a fluke... - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                                                                     Hey - I didn't say it was THEIR fluke... :P -NT - (inthane-chan)
                                                                                     Pshaw, BeeP - (Ashton) - (5)
                                                                                         If you have a point... - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                                                             Yes, in fact it seems that they Are: wannabes. Thou sayest. - (Ashton) - (3)
                                                                                                 o0o -NT - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                                                     Parochial minds everywhere salute thy speechlessness.oO0Oo. -NT - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                                                         Hey bud...tried to bring you on subject... - (bepatient)
                                                                                     I guess I can write better than you can read. - (jb4) - (27)
                                                                                         So "you" doesn't actually mean me when you're talking... - (bepatient) - (26)
                                                                                             So, does improved test scores == better education? - (jb4) - (25)
                                                                                                 Until you offer a better methodology... - (bepatient) - (24)
                                                                                                     Platitudes, platitudes, platitudes! - (jb4) - (23)
                                                                                                         *sigh* - Alternatives? -NT - (bepatient) - (17)
                                                                                                             How about... - (mmoffitt) - (16)
                                                                                                                 *sigh*2 - Alternatives? - (bepatient) - (15)
                                                                                                                     ? - (mmoffitt) - (14)
                                                                                                                         I didn't read it that way - (wharris2) - (1)
                                                                                                                             *clap* -NT - (bepatient)
                                                                                                                         Not quite. - (bepatient) - (11)
                                                                                                                             But not your implicit presumption throughout: - (Ashton) - (10)
                                                                                                                                 Xactly. Well said. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                                                                                     It might very well have been. - (bepatient) - (6)
                                                                                                                                         Notwithstanding this thread's length, - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                                                                             I doubt that very much. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                 How about a *civilized* population, while we're at it ?? - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                     Priceless - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                         We have no? little disagreement re Basics - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                         No, 'saying it' won't. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                 What do you prefer? - (wharris2) - (1)
                                                                                                                                     Re: What do you prefer? - (Ashton)
                                                                                                         As an aside, what's with diagramming anyway? - (wharris2) - (4)
                                                                                                             Re: As an aside, what's with diagramming anyway? - (jb4)
                                                                                                             Re: As an aside, what's with diagramming anyway? - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                                                                                 Yahoo! - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                                     Re: Yahoo! - (deSitter)
                                                                                 VERY Nicely done. Thank you. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                         Apologies. But here is our fork. - (mmoffitt) - (27)
                                                             ROFLMAO! I wrote the above before reading BP's last! -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                             All of that...an rofl... - (bepatient) - (19)
                                                                 Hmmmm. - (mmoffitt) - (18)
                                                                     Allow me to disagree. - (Simon_Jester) - (17)
                                                                         True, the real culprit is US. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                             Figures. Throw money at it. - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                                                 You think the current salary is just right? - (Silverlock) - (3)
                                                                                     Don't even try that. - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                                         Nothing "blind" about it - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                                                                             See under boxley. - (bepatient)
                                                                         May I add one... - (screamer) - (10)
                                                                             Ever the optimist still...eh DR? - (bepatient) - (8)
                                                                                 I basically agree, but would make one distinction... - (screamer) - (1)
                                                                                     Damned earthquakes... - (bepatient)
                                                                                 Another reason - slippery slope. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                     However you categorize it.... - (bepatient)
                                                                                 Hardly the only reason against vouchers. - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                                                                                     A minor nit... - (screamer) - (1)
                                                                                         No argument - (Simon_Jester)
                                                                                     Re: same rules and regs - (Silverlock)
                                                                             I stand corrected: we Can still create an informative thread - (Ashton)
                                                             One other question. - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                 I dont know about upwards but it sure does sideways around - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                     damned radical - (bepatient)
                                                             Proof! - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                 rofl -NT - (bepatient)
                                                             Re: But here is our fork - make that skewer. Here's mine- - (Ashton)
                                                     Here's one.... - (screamer)
             As a Democrat - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                 Say-WHAT?!? - (jb4) - (2)
                     he will do the same thing democrat tony knowles did in AK - (boxley)
                     Give Jeb credit... - (Simon_Jester)

Escape from the prison planet.
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