I am shocked and appalled...

Post #62,654 by screamer 11/13/02 11:20:21 AM Reply	I am shocked and appalled... after extensive research (yeah, right!), I have found [link\|http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1999/03/cov_15featurea.html\|this] out... Last week I discover that rams are doing it and now this. Shit, they've even made the [link\|http://rainbowallianceopenfaith.homestead.com/Science3.html\|Rainbow Alliance] and I'll just let you see the title of the following links ... [link\|http://www.allaboutsex.org/AnimalSexuality101.html\|http://www.allabouts...Sexuality101.html] and [link\|http://www.cybermale.com/books/animalhomosexuality.html\|http://www.cybermale...omosexuality.html]. I have to agree with Ashton, the world is self-destructing. As a public service, I feel it impotent that you read [link\|http://tftb.com/deify/gayanimals.htm\|this] . If you'd like to share your thoughts about gay animals, please feel free. Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #62,713 by boxley 11/13/02 6:14:32 PM Reply	just like it sez in the bible got a rod dont spare it as any human male can tell you grip with both hands, jar of warm liver, yer average ewe or your willing buddy if it feels good do it. The only difference is humans have this thing called sentience which allocates the knowledge of guilt and poking your neighbor who has a rod like yours is deemed unsound practice by most other sentient creatures. To an animal getting rocks off is paramount. We humans assign emotions to the act of ejaculation, that is where the dilemma is. Me I dont see the problem, more wimmen for me and as far as lesbians go when they need a warm flesh flavored dildo that aquirts, Im there. On the other side of it I dont like pedopfilia of any kind, straight or gay but that is relegated by emotion not fact. There is no physical barrier to adults having preteen sex but there is a mountain of evidence it seriously screws up the kid later in life and besides If I shoot you in the act that is a freebee and I feel better. It is a feelings thing not a science thing. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] "Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
Post #62,747 by Ashton 11/13/02 8:46:58 PM Reply	Couple word definitions need correcting. (But it's a Popular mindset, I'll grant) - The only difference is humans have this thing called sentience which allocates the knowledge of guilt and poking your neighbor who has a rod like yours is deemed unsound practice by most other sentient creatures. Sentience has damn-all to do with toddler-conditioned mindsets of the sort which inculcate the idea of guilt! .. or more precisely: The idea of ~~Tribble-like born-pregnant~~ Born Guilty of Original Sin\ufffd. In fact this particular masochistic priest-invented rod for managing the flock: is a peculiarity of the bellicose, Gold-besotted er 'Western School' of mangling the nascent psyches of innocent children.. often for life. Most of the people on this planet do not share such aberrant practices - though many millions have developed their own and other disgusting rituals .. to try and keep their offspring too! from climbing much further from the caves than has Daddy. (That last may be one commonality among all those who deem a child to be [merely] My Chance for Immortality cha cha cha.) No indeed - sentience is about the capacity to contemplate abstractions like 'ideas', and to recognize [for want of a simpler term not sure to be misunderestimated] The Fact That I Am. We suppose ... ... that most other 'animals' lack that self-mirror, though recent experience with Chimps: leaves the matter wide open. Sentience, however - doesn't guarantee that one shall become very good at discriminating the differences among sucky-ideas, marketed or just plain silly- ideas and.. Other-ideas. But this word assuredly does not come freighted with your Judeo-Xian-Puritan aberrations. THAT kind of language-fucking lies behind the endless God-Wars.. I thought you already knew that ?! We are infinitely malleable beings.. only some -not all- tend towards encasing that state within Ready-Mix concrete. These encased ones are the lawful prey of priests (who mix and pour). Oh.. the short form: I demur in your definition of Me. There's a Lot of that Defining of Not-Me/Others going on... seems to have started about the time that the First Marketer appeared. In a robe of some sort, or was it a smock? (Pssst - want Eternal Life\ufffd\ufffd? OK. Here's the terms - don't forget my vigorish!.. every week now, y'hear?!) Ashton I Am That I Am and I don't need your assistance in spinning that into, I Am What You Think/Insist/GotTold I Am thankyouverymuch
Post #62,773 by boxley 11/14/02 12:18:37 AM Reply	wrongo bud sentience A dog that shits on the carpet knows that is is guilty and feels shame because his nose has been rubbed in it more than once (learned behavior) A human knows guilt and experiences shame without learning (definition of sentience) doesnt know why it is wrong, just feels shame. Proven by rolling eyebrows by other humans. A dog doesnt give a shit about its peers unless a fear factor comes in. In humans acceptance is craven. Until we unlearn the need for acceptance into the human herd guilt is builtin. Has nothing to do with ubermench building. I suscumb out of ennui but there is a point where I will lose it and hope I never get to that point. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] "Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
Post #62,751 by Ashton 11/13/02 9:11:03 PM 11/13/02 9:15:38 PM Reply	Now.. now.. Dan - not to worry. Remember: you have been conditioned from birth to equate Sex==Dirty. Then later found Sex==Also-Sells. Yes, you have! You grew up Around here. These things take some time to umm undo.. Patience. Animals have had the unfailing Primal Good Sense never to have even remotely invented.. Priest-Animals. (nor any concept of 'dirty' either; never mind the execrable 'guilty!') What Wise Creatures! - and in our hubris.. We State! that we are Superior. No animal bothers to rebut or sue, we see.. ha haaa ha ha haa ha {snork} {guffaw} Damn are we amusing! to the Tralfamadorians on leave. See: all this stuff is just in The Mind. It got injected when you were all nascent and evenescent n'stuff and then someone told you "You Are A Little Boy" .. and it has all been -like skiing- downhill, since.. Stay the course though! One Can overcome the willful damage done early on, but one must have the courage (and keep the mouth tacit and __) classified nontransmissible Oh.. even among the terminally concretized-Certain: when things start to devolve at too-high [?] a rate of acceleration, then the Primal Instincts reemerge even after decades of indoctrination! This Really pisses off the Priests (of all military ranks incl their RPTC - you know, like 'ROTC'). This last fact ought to reassure you, even in Boolean: that which pisses of the oppressor/manager ~~ the enemy of my enemy is my ~~ and so on. Gotta go; date with a St. Bernard (hmmm.. Holy to boot) Edit PS: Almost forgot.. in sentient beings - shocked and appalled are words usually reserved for concepts like.. say.. nuclear weapon, Rev Foulwell, President Dubya, Justice Scalia-Lapdog -- you know: Dangerous Things.. Things that can Hurt You! HTH Edited by Ashton Nov. 13, 2002, 09:15:38 PM EST Expand All History
Post #62,847 by screamer 11/14/02 11:43:45 AM Reply	Okay, I have a confession... I only posted this 'cause I liked the picture of the chimp in the leather jacket... and was trying to get a rise out of Ross. And there you go, pontificating on "the meaning of life" again. Aside... in MP's "The Meaning of Life", do you ever feel like that guy who gives the elegant soliloquy at the business meeting about how easily our conscientiousness is distracted by minutia who is interrupted by his boss, "Jenkins, you were saying something about people buying more hats"... ? I sometimes think about your posts in that context... If you haven't seen the movie for a while, check it out. :-) But I do find it interesting that there is some actual scientific research trying to determine the nature versus nurture aspect of the gay debate. But, but... I really just liked the picture of the chimp, FWIW. Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #62,960 by Ashton 11/14/02 9:23:08 PM Reply	Heh.. Why should the Other Pontiff have all the fun? (I see where he gets his material but.. it's Open Source y'know?) In an earlier encyclical on the Meaning of Life.. I covered the nature/nurture IIRC. Besides, getting down to... understanding? what another person's choices derive from (internally) is obv a lengthy process, an unhurried one -- and it has damn-all to do with the nasty slogans of children, jeering as they do: at Anyone not Identical to tne name-caller. ie - just like the "adults" around Murican parts - when the above is the topic. It's obv cultural -- and you've seen more than one of those, right? (We can always notice too.. how terminally Nasty folks get when accusing someone of an er 'affliction' they're afraid They might also have. Ask any shrink) Cheers, Ashton XXIII
Post #63,036 by screamer 11/15/02 11:31:48 AM Reply	Since this thread is a throwaway anyway... I read your post re: education and all the rest. I am starting to come (back) around to your point of view regarding the travesty/sham/mockery of a travesty of a sham that Am Society is/was/will always be?... but I really do keep trying to find meaning and reason for hope. Seriously. In my best MP voice, "and now for something completely different"... (and perhaps a bit more relevent for this forum), if you get a chance, tell me what you think about the following site: [link\|http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/DEFAULT.html\|http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/DEFAULT.html] I have been lurking around in it for a while trying to determine if I am finding enlightenment or Lronhubbard... As you have oft pointed out, sometimes it's hard to tell in the cacophony of sell, sell, sell just what is science vrs. snake oil. :-) Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #63,053 by boxley 11/15/02 11:58:24 AM Reply	rosecrucians online looks like the cyber view of the mysteries. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] "Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
Post #63,151 by Ashton 11/15/02 8:15:17 PM 11/15/02 8:22:01 PM Reply	Ah Grasshopper __[and we are all er Grasshoppers] Principia Intellectualis? Refs from Adler to Wittgenstein! Evokes initially.. the story of Bertrand R. nearly driving self mad in His 'Principia' - first 128? pages became a preface to the proposition that [perhaps] 1 + 1 = 2. His intimates said that he never fully recovered from the experience. Guess I'll have to nibble off a few links and see if.. the massive analyses have led to anything like a synthesis or two. This aspect reminds me of Mr. G(urdjieff) and his response to a question of the ilk.. C'mon.. can't ya just Tell Us what you've found out about [All and Everything] ?? Huh.. huh? He said ~ "It's all very simple, actually. But one must first learn pretty much [then dimiss most of that - implicit] in order to see this simple little bit.." So I'll try to delve a bit, peripatetically as weird mood strikes. Overall I have the impression of a third angle: we "intellectually centered Types" have to beware of the mesmerizing effect of a whole bunch of ideas. Our first instinct is to build a Model. And preferably, almost inevitably? - The Model of [It All] cha cha cha. Y'know? Hierarchical file systems appear to me to be a modern Kaballa in that.. there is the tacit evanescent promise that.. [?] perhaps it is ~ "with sufficient linkage we shall grasp The Whole but as a sort of Unifying-Simplicity". Alas for that, I have come to firmly disbelieve that 'grokking' could yield to any 'process' - of the classes [realizable] or [imaginable]. The class [impossible] may.. overlap both? Recursion should be expected here, but that may even be the Simple part. I guess I don't know how to intellectually 'prove' - that intellect is not enough ;-) even to self, if I don't pay attention for a trice.. This may be why 'Teachers' are indispensable to grokking to fullness. Information we gots Lots of but umm 'transformation'? - Ah There's the Rub! Ashton who must rely greatly upon there being Cosmic Humor. Otherwise - this Play is highly repetitive and odoriferous to boot. Edit PS: Mozilla Rocks! Saving a bunch of tabs as Bookmarked Tabs.. comes dangerously close to feeding imagination that, that intellectual Model just.. might be tenable :( :-\ufffd (How's That for recursion) Edited by Ashton Nov. 15, 2002, 08:22:01 PM EST Expand All History

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