eBay too -- and you can't tell them about it

Mail I just sent to Troy Wolverton at ZDNet because eBay's information uptake system is fucked.\r\n\r\n

\r\n

\r\nTroy:\r\n\r\nFound your April 26, 2002 article on eBay's discontinuing mail reciepts\r\nat safeharbor@ebay.com:\r\n\r\n    [link|http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-892848.html|http://zdnet.com.com...-1106-892848.html]\r\n\r\n\r\nThe situation you forsaw:  that fraud reports would not be received by\r\neBay, is exactly what's happening.\r\n\r\nAs systems administrator for a company, I also get to deal with such\r\nmundane issues as questionable spam, virus alerts, and the like.  So\r\nwhen an employee forwarded me the mail at the end of this message, I\r\npassed it on with a note to abuse@ebay.com (abuse@<domain> is a very\r\nfrequently used address, required by Internet standards.  I received a\r\nbounce message in response, directing me to a confusingly structured web\r\npage with no clear indication of where to report a third-party fraud,\r\nparticularly if I'm not a registered eBay user (which I'm not).\r\n\r\n\r\neBay's status of not accepting mail to abuse@ebay.com is noted at the\r\nRFC-Ignorant site, which tracks Internet domains which flout standards:\r\n\r\n    [link|http://www.rfc-ignorant.org/tools/lookup.php?domain=ebay.com|http://www.rfc-ignor...p?domain=ebay.com].\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nThe response I received from eBay:\r\n\r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\nThank you for writing to the eBay SafeHarbor Team.                              \r\n                                                                                \r\nThe address you wrote to (safeharbor@ebay.com) is no longer in service.         \r\nPlease resend your email to us through one of the online webforms listed        \r\nbelow. Using these forms will help us direct your email to the right            \r\ndepartment where we can quickly answer your question correctly and get          \r\nit right back to you.                                                           \r\n\r\n\r\nFor Trust and Safety issues (reports of policy violations, problems with        \r\ntransactions, suspensions, etc.) please use the following webform:              \r\n                                                                                \r\n [link|http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-RS.html|http://pages.ebay.co...cs/select-RS.html]       \r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n\r\n...unless I'm registered, I can't provide any information.\r\n\r\n\r\nWhile there's been some coverage of similar scams targeting PayPal,\r\nthere doesn't appear to be any current news regarding eBay user ID theft\r\nscams:\r\n\r\n    Online payment service PayPal hit by scam                                   \r\n    By LINDA ROSENCRANCE                                                        \r\n    SEPTEMBER 27, 2002                                                          \r\n    [link|http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,74687,00.html|http://www.computerw...801,74687,00.html]\r\n                                                                                \r\n    During the past two weeks, online payment service PayPal Inc. has           \r\n    been targeted by scam artists trying to get the personal information        \r\n    of its users, including credit card data, user names and passwords.    \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nForwarded message (recipient obscured):\r\n\r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n>Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:25:16 +0900                                           \r\n>To: <comments@XXX.com>iwww.net, <comments@XXX.com>iwww.net,        \r\n>        <comments@XXX.com>iwww.net, <comments@XXX.net>iwww.net         \r\n>From: francina7f8@netlink.com (francina7f8@netlink.com)                        \r\n>Subject: eBay Billing Department                                               \r\n>                                                                               \r\n>Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by                \r\n>francina7f8@netlink.com (francina7f8@netlink.com) on Saturday, November 9,     \r\n>2002 at 17:25:14                                                               \r\n>---------------------------------------------------------------------------    \r\n>                                                                               \r\n>cp:                                                                            \r\n>                                                                               \r\n>Dear eBay User,                                                                \r\n>                                                                               \r\n>It has become very noticeable that another party has been corrupting your      \r\n>eBay account and has violated our User Agreement policy listed:                \r\n>                                                                               \r\n>4. Bidding and Buying                                                          \r\n>                                                                               \r\n>You are obligated to complete the transaction with the seller if you           \r\n>purchase an item through one of our fixed price formats or are the highest     \r\n>bidder as described below. If you are the highest bidder at the end of an      \r\n>auction (meeting the applicable minimum bid or reserve requirements) and       \r\n>your bid is accepted by the seller, you are obligated to complete the          \r\n>transaction with the seller, or the transaction is prohibited by law or by     \r\n>this Agreement.                                                                \r\n>                                                                               \r\n>You received this notice from eBay because it has come to our attention        \r\n>that your current account has caused interruptions with other eBay members     \r\n>and eBay requires immediate verification for your account. Please verify       \r\n>your account or the account may become disabled. Click Here To Verify Your     \r\n>Account - <a href="[link|http://www.freehomepages.com/ebaybilldepo>click|http://www.freehomep...billdepo&gt;click] here</a>\r\n>                                                                               \r\n>**********************************************                                 \r\n>                                                                               \r\n>Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective          \r\n>owners. eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc. \r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n

\r\n

Response I got after posting the problem information on their site:

Dear Alexander,

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

PayPal provides the world's first instant and secure online payment
service.

With PayPal, individuals and businesses can send and receive payments
through the Internet.

When a member establishes an account with PayPal, an email address must
be registered.

* In some instances, email providers will recycle email
addresses, which means at some point the email address was previously
issued to another member of the internet provider.
* In this situation, it appears that the person who previously
was issued the email address with the internet provider, established a
PayPal Account and registered this email address with our service.

When this occurs, if the PayPal member does not remove the email
address information registered on their PayPal Account, email
notifications regarding the PayPal Account will still be sent to this
active email address registered with our service.

We will attempt to contact the member who has this email address
registered and request that they update their account information.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us
again.

Sincerely,
Brenda
PayPal Customer Service

Obviously assuming they did send the mail and making excuses for it. I guarantee you no one else would own my email address.

Perhaps if I said the substitute URL was for a Russian mafia site or to forward the note to their fraud handling department. Arggg!

I also posted a tip at the FBI site. They have not responded at all..

Post #61,980 by kmself 11/9/02 8:46:48 PM Reply	eBay too -- and you can't tell them about it Mail I just sent to Troy Wolverton at ZDNet because eBay's information uptake system is fucked.\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\nTroy:\r\n\r\nFound your April 26, 2002 article on eBay's discontinuing mail reciepts\r\nat safeharbor@ebay.com:\r\n\r\n [link\|http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-892848.html\|http://zdnet.com.com...-1106-892848.html]\r\n\r\n\r\nThe situation you forsaw: that fraud reports would not be received by\r\neBay, is exactly what's happening.\r\n\r\nAs systems administrator for a company, I also get to deal with such\r\nmundane issues as questionable spam, virus alerts, and the like. So\r\nwhen an employee forwarded me the mail at the end of this message, I\r\npassed it on with a note to abuse@ebay.com (abuse@<domain> is a very\r\nfrequently used address, required by Internet standards. I received a\r\nbounce message in response, directing me to a confusingly structured web\r\npage with no clear indication of where to report a third-party fraud,\r\nparticularly if I'm not a registered eBay user (which I'm not).\r\n\r\n\r\neBay's status of not accepting mail to abuse@ebay.com is noted at the\r\nRFC-Ignorant site, which tracks Internet domains which flout standards:\r\n\r\n [link\|http://www.rfc-ignorant.org/tools/lookup.php?domain=ebay.com\|http://www.rfc-ignor...p?domain=ebay.com].\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nThe response I received from eBay:\r\n\r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\nThank you for writing to the eBay SafeHarbor Team. \r\n \r\nThe address you wrote to (safeharbor@ebay.com) is no longer in service. \r\nPlease resend your email to us through one of the online webforms listed \r\nbelow. Using these forms will help us direct your email to the right \r\ndepartment where we can quickly answer your question correctly and get \r\nit right back to you. \r\n\r\n\r\nFor Trust and Safety issues (reports of policy violations, problems with \r\ntransactions, suspensions, etc.) please use the following webform: \r\n \r\n [link\|http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-RS.html\|http://pages.ebay.co...cs/select-RS.html] \r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n\r\n...unless I'm registered, I can't provide any information.\r\n\r\n\r\nWhile there's been some coverage of similar scams targeting PayPal,\r\nthere doesn't appear to be any current news regarding eBay user ID theft\r\nscams:\r\n\r\n Online payment service PayPal hit by scam \r\n By LINDA ROSENCRANCE \r\n SEPTEMBER 27, 2002 \r\n [link\|http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,74687,00.html\|http://www.computerw...801,74687,00.html]\r\n \r\n During the past two weeks, online payment service PayPal Inc. has \r\n been targeted by scam artists trying to get the personal information \r\n of its users, including credit card data, user names and passwords. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nForwarded message (recipient obscured):\r\n\r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n>Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:25:16 +0900 \r\n>To: <comments@XXX.com>iwww.net, <comments@XXX.com>iwww.net, \r\n> <comments@XXX.com>iwww.net, <comments@XXX.net>iwww.net \r\n>From: francina7f8@netlink.com (francina7f8@netlink.com) \r\n>Subject: eBay Billing Department \r\n> \r\n>Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by \r\n>francina7f8@netlink.com (francina7f8@netlink.com) on Saturday, November 9, \r\n>2002 at 17:25:14 \r\n>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- \r\n> \r\n>cp: \r\n> \r\n>Dear eBay User, \r\n> \r\n>It has become very noticeable that another party has been corrupting your \r\n>eBay account and has violated our User Agreement policy listed: \r\n> \r\n>4. Bidding and Buying \r\n> \r\n>You are obligated to complete the transaction with the seller if you \r\n>purchase an item through one of our fixed price formats or are the highest \r\n>bidder as described below. If you are the highest bidder at the end of an \r\n>auction (meeting the applicable minimum bid or reserve requirements) and \r\n>your bid is accepted by the seller, you are obligated to complete the \r\n>transaction with the seller, or the transaction is prohibited by law or by \r\n>this Agreement. \r\n> \r\n>You received this notice from eBay because it has come to our attention \r\n>that your current account has caused interruptions with other eBay members \r\n>and eBay requires immediate verification for your account. Please verify \r\n>your account or the account may become disabled. Click Here To Verify Your \r\n>Account - <a href="[link\|http://www.freehomepages.com/ebaybilldepo>click\|http://www.freehomep...billdepo>click] here</a>\r\n> \r\n>********************************************** \r\n> \r\n>Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective \r\n>owners. eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc. \r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n \r\n --\r\nKarsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n[link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
Post #61,984 by a6l6e6x 11/9/02 9:06:33 PM Reply	And when you do, they are clueless! Response I got after posting the problem information on their site: Dear Alexander, Thank you for contacting PayPal. PayPal provides the world's first instant and secure online payment service. With PayPal, individuals and businesses can send and receive payments through the Internet. When a member establishes an account with PayPal, an email address must be registered. * In some instances, email providers will recycle email addresses, which means at some point the email address was previously issued to another member of the internet provider. * In this situation, it appears that the person who previously was issued the email address with the internet provider, established a PayPal Account and registered this email address with our service. When this occurs, if the PayPal member does not remove the email address information registered on their PayPal Account, email notifications regarding the PayPal Account will still be sent to this active email address registered with our service. We will attempt to contact the member who has this email address registered and request that they update their account information. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again. Sincerely, Brenda PayPal Customer Service Obviously assuming they did send the mail and making excuses for it. I guarantee you no one else would own my email address. Perhaps if I said the substitute URL was for a Russian mafia site or to forward the note to their fraud handling department. Arggg! I also posted a tip at the FBI site. They have not responded at all.. Alex "I have a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain. -- Pierre de Fermat (1601-1665)
Post #61,992 by static 11/9/02 10:32:05 PM Reply	Paypal is courting disaster. But I think they know this and have managed to stay running for years. It would be interesting to see someone force them to become a proper bank, since they look and act almost like one. Wade. "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #61,995 by imric 11/9/02 10:44:04 PM Reply	NY State? Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #62,213 by tseliot 11/11/02 1:03:15 PM Reply	PayPal IS eBay [link\|http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/auc/ebay/hub_intro-outside\|http://www.paypal.co...hub_intro-outside] Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance - Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation. BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10

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