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New BMG adding copy protection to all its CDs
[link|http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/27960.html|http://www.theregist...ent/54/27960.html]

A few weeks ago reader Simon Barber accidentally bought a copy of Paradise Lost's Symbol of Life with Cactus Data Shield on it. The CD was marked with the Compact Disc logo (although Philips, custodian of this standard, has objected to its use on copy-protected CDs) and also had a small print 'health warning' claiming the CD conformed to the Red Book standard and was playable on standard home CD players.

Being a troublemaker Simon didn't try to get his money back from the retailer but attacked BMG directly. BMG's first line of defence on copy protection is here, where you'll find explanations, self justifications and a mail form for all European territories. The UK version (and indeed the French \ufffd that'll annoy them) says \ufffdBMG too sees itself obliged to protect future releases by implementing a copy control system\ufffd and \ufffdBMG will be using copy control technology for digital media as has been used for a long time with comparable media such as computer software, video games and DVDs.\ufffd
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New An even better one: EMI
[link|http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/28009.html|http://www.theregist...ent/54/28009.html]

"If you plan to continue protesting about future audio media releases with copy protection, forget it; copy protection is a reality, and within a matter of months more or less all audio media worldwide are copy protected. And this is a good thing for the music industry. In order to make this happen we will do anything within our power - whether you like it or not."
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Re: An even better one: EMI
There are 250 Million blank CDRs and tapes bought and used this year for copying music in comparison to 213 Million prerecorded audio media. This means the owners are only being paid for 46 per cent of the musical content.

Don't know about y'all, but of the hundred or so CDRs I've burned, only 2 were music, the rest were data such as family photos. On top of that, the 2 music CDs were legal compilations of music I'd purchased.

Darrell Spice, Jr.

[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore

New Besides... those people get money for those blanks
At least they do here in Canada... there are surcharges on blank media so the oligopolists can keep the money tap on.
--\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\r\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\r\n* Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada                   [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Christian, translation check please?
Could you check the original and the Register's translation of it and verify they got the flavor of it right? Thanks.
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
New Sorry about the delay... But yes, it's pretty much exact.
New Won't slow the rippers down.
Monty (writer of CD Paranoia) has said that his ripping software will treat copy protection as errors to be recovered from. Which it more or less is.

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Link for that discussion?
Or was it in email?
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New It would have been on the mailing list.
Lessee... There's a question [link|http://www.xiph.org/archives/paranoia/0543.html|here] but that's not where he says it.

Nah, can't easily find it. A reply to that message I just linked to suggests Monty thought it wasn't going to be impossible. :-)

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New I have been goin...
Through about 4BJ1 of Mailing List Posts. I have found alot of inferrence about that exact statement but NOT the statement...

Gersh... Wishin we had that...


1= Bi-Jillion

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]

Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
New He might have posted it on SlashDot.
Monty and crew make sure they haunt the relevant /. forum when a story is posted about anything they work on.

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Gah...
I canna find it...

I'd sooner poke my eyes out looking through /.

I have scanned and read prolly 2000 articles with Paranoia and Protection in them. Another 5-600 with Monty in them (Python come up ALOT in those Articles... must be a nice language that Never expects the Spanish Inquisition! or the Coffin being dragged around)

Also searched for XIP (for xiph.org), and Copy Prot CD ... al fer naught...

Looked in TONS O Usenet Posting from GOOGOOGLE....

I have once again seen TONS of reference to it... but not the actual statement.

Also searched in relation to Skylarov's stuff to... as I saw and inferrence there as well.

Some of the things being cleared up for me by just reading and reading... you are right Wade... Copy Protection *IS* just an error... ot be dealt with.

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]

Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
New What's his /. userid?

Easiest search is to find the user, go to their posted comments, and slosh through them. None of the variants of "monty" I found as users worked.

--\r\nKarsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New xiphmont ?
--
Chris Altmann
New That would be it.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Dam...
Just went through all his posts...

Nothing... Crap!

Other Ideas Wade??

I am not challenging you, there is enough data to support the statement being out there...

I just wan the statement!!!

Could it have been on an IRC blog? or HIS blog?

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]

Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
New You're really keen! :-)
Have you tried emailing him yourself? :-)

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Duhh... dull as a...
club...

Now what was that for? or did I miss the Humor?

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]

Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
New No, I was being serious.
I rattled around a little bit on the Paranoia mailing list archive (I regularly read the Vorbis ones) but you seem very keen to find Monty's quote.

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Oh... so I did,,,
Miss the humor....

Yeah, been looking when I can. I will find it!

[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]

Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
New Something similar from an interview on April 4, 2000.
[link|http://www.advogato.org/article/56.html|Here].

Interview: Christopher Montgomery of Xiphophorus
Posted 4 Apr 2000 by advogato

...

But aren't there some people who prefer digital audio to be a closed club? After all, Vorbis doesn't have any copy protection, region codes, or any of that.

Neither does the competition. The algorithmic equivalent of a wad of gum in the keyhole is not real security, regardless of the press releases that claim otherwise.

But really, this is the real can of worms.

I try to avoid political baggage and philosophical dogma, but I fundamentally disagree with the amount of control the music industry is trying to place over distribution. It is not realistic, it is not practical, and moreover it just worries me.

Let me state for the record that I want the artists to get their money, and much more so than the record companies do. The [link|http://www.riaa.com/|RIAA] can shout piracy all they want, but that isn't what it's about. It's about control, and only about control.

Do you want the RIAA to have the ability to tell you that you may only play your music on a single 'Walkman'? BTW, they have a deal with Sony this year, and the price of that Walkman just went up.

Similar scenarios played out just this past month (albeit concerning MPEG licensing, not the RIAA)! I don't have to construct a 'slippery slope' argument, because we've already fallen down it. You, Joe Consumer, are losing the very right to listen to music you've already bought.

The last piece that completes the absurdity is that the protection schemes the RIAA demands are impossible to implement securely. They'll always end up cracked. Thus, the RIAA, DVD Forum and MPAA are trying to make the act of reverse engineering these flimsy protections itself a crime.

None of this makes sense, and I'm simply not going to participate in the madness. It makes no engineering sense, it makes no legal sense, and my conscience won't let me implement a feature that takes reasonable rights away from people.


Probably not what everyone's looking for though...

Cheers,
Scott.
(Hmm. The square bracket ... square bracket construct is giving me a Zope Attribute Error again... I'll mention it in Suggestions.)
New Related: Schneier, The Futility of Copy Protection

[link|http://cryptome.org/futile-cp.htm|http://cryptome.org/futile-cp.htm]

\r\n\r\n

Also, [link|http://kqedweb1.conxion.com/programs/program-archive.jsp?progID=RD19&ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&type=radio|Howard Rheingold speaking on KQED's forum] mentioned as an aside that Japan licensed online BBSs in the 1980s, leaving the US with a culture far more familiar with online activities and Japan disadvantaged. The US is currently headed to make the mistakes Japan did a decade ago.

--\r\nKarsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New Wait until they see what this costs
If they think they are losing revenue to rippers, wait until they see how many iPod fans stop buying their crap.

Seriously, everyone I know has their CD collection on a pocket firewire drive so they can take it with them and listen at work. I don't even own a non-computer CD player.

The best way to send the message is to not buy the product.
I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration.
Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:54:29 AM EDT
New Of course, they'll mis-read the "message".
They'll think that theft wil have risen thus validating their actions.

A better action is to buy, and then return it with "it doesn't work". The retail stores won't like this and will eventually push it back to the publishers. Then the publishers will get a reputation - amongst the retailers - for making broken CDs. NB: We want the retailers on our side!

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Yes, retailers are very important.
You're absolutely right about that... I wonder how HMV would react if people started returning the CDs en masse.

You'll also need a publicity campaign... one that makes it very clear that the campaign organisers (and the CD buying public as a whole) think the retailers are their friends. Call it thegreatcdstrike.com or something.

Finally, ISTR Phillips saying that they didn't consider copy protected CDs to be CDs... and as it's their technology, they get to make decisions like that. Anyone know what Phillips official position on all this is?
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Laval Qu\ufffdbec Canada                   [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New I remember Philips saying that, too.
But I can't find it on their web site. I'm guessing that if they crack down heavily on it, the publishers would fast track any plans to move off CDs. Philips wouldn't want that.

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Hah..!__like the 'Walk-DVD Player' ? [scrap yer Old one !?]
New It gets complicated.
I'm sure Philips and Sony are still collecting a decent amount of royalties for the CD format. And both of them own a piece of the DVD royalty soup, too.
But moving forward is a tricky one. Backwards compatibility is interesting. Philips discovered that this didn't make up for the limits of linear access with DCC (Digital Compact Cassette). Meanwhile, Sony's MiniDisc has toppled the compact cassette only in Japan - elsewhere it has created its own market niche. Then, too, the Compact Disc required entirely new hardware yet it has successfully just about all but wiped out vinyl.

More recent advances in electronic music storage seem to involve patent-encumbered heavy psycho-acoustic compression on solid-state storage. Unfortunately, the versatile solid-state storage is a) very expensive and b) available in too many formats. More unfortunately, the patent-encumberance and the digital rights minded views of the publishing industry are creating hundreds of all fairly similar products. "Success" is getting redefined while they try to figure out how to control the patents, control the music and get consumers off CDs en-masse. We know that this currently doesn't work but consumers are being turning into boiled frogs in the meantime. If Philips decided to loudly and forcefully declare that "copy-protected" CDs aren't CDs at all, then consumers may find themselves being boiled frogs a lot sooner. And Philips' loses their CD license revenue a lot sooner :-/

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New And overlaying all the digital permutations, remains..
Analog == the way we hear, from tympannum thru cochlea --> brain. And amidst all the *claimed* Golden Ears [this is a Very old topic BTW] are those also, who have demonstrated via double-blind tests:

Yes (and allowing for the guaranteed poorer S/N and the mere illusion that it is higher on CD = via simple sending the outliers to /dev/null) the sound of 'music' on the better --> best vinyls is indeed deemed more Lifelike than the digitized permutations -

Which must Always pass through [n+1] cascades of ADCs/DACs. Natch too - whether or not the all-along claimed factoids are indeed facts: the matter ceases to be terribly relevant when.. the instruments themselves are part of an electronic generator (!) And clearly These are the $$-makers du jour / thus where most attention is placed, in an age of Pop and of diminishing support for orchestras and the sound of such un-electronicised instruments actually regularly heard Live. (Gotta be rich for that, of late)

(And yes, I do recall when Dolby hit the boards; recall seeing hearing the Very Expen$ive Dolby-A compared on a Crown SS-800 R-to-R tape recorder: at a live string quartet gig.. and onwards thru the morphs.) I ceased seriously keeping up over a decade ago, though -- and there are Lots of 'religious'-cult opinions extant, I know. These natch tend to make all purists seem to be loonies, they being distinguished by NOT employing credible tests of their cockamamie stuff. [Like the welding cables for power amps!]

ie.. whatever the merits of the present and next- meeja; the analog/digital re-production Question shall remain to bug those (few remaining?) who deem music a necessity of life .. for the foreseeable.

Love. It.

Ashton
New I'd forgotten your aspect on that.
I generally move on with technology in my own time, but a certain "it gets easier to be better" tends to earmark it.

Case in point: I don't use cassettes any more, except to copy stuff off that I have on cassette. For the equivalent function, I use MiniDisc. Basically I found I was futzing around so much making Really Good cassette recordings whereas with MiniDisc it's a doddle.

Case #2: making decent sounding MP3 files was a trial of repitition. Apart from it being a novelty when I first looked into it, artifact problems et al made it a bit like the cassette problem. :-( A job change meant I could play my own music at work and that's when I discovered Ogg Vorbis. The encoder offers a ridiculously simple interface: "quality". I haven't encoded an MP3 in more than a year.

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Ogg Vorbis
If I ever sucker myself into the whole hog + postage - re Linux.. I see I'll have to try out an O.V. rendition of something with the full orchestral dynamic range and - hear. My ears can be fooled more easily now, for missing a few chunks of the spectrum - so good-enough will do.

..but I can still smell the glassiness of 'over-compressed' fiddling pretty well.

(And converting all those vinyls is comparable to doing the work of the Linux inculcation.. Twice! urk)

Ashton
New Vorbis ain't just for Linux
Go [link|http://www.vorbis.com/download_win.psp|here].
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
New Thanks!
I'll risk a few more lines in the &^#$& Registry to give it a whirl. Nice to know that the files can be reused later under Linux and... Apple!
For now, quality 0 is roughly equivalent to 64kbps average, 5 is roughly 160kbps, and 10 gives about 400kbps. Most people seeking very-near-CD-quality audio encode at a quality of 5 or, for lossless stereo coupling, 6. The default setting is quality 3, which at approximately 110kbps gives a smaller filesize and significantly better fidelity than .mp3 compression at 128kbps.
So... I guess I'll try orchestral music at level 6 or more; it's gonna be tough to get a 80 dB range with triangles on through double-bass. MP3 (hearsay) fails that pretty much.

But hearing is believing.


Ashton
New Actually, q3 approximates MP3 @ 160, quality-wise.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Vinyls vs 1's and 0's
"the sound of 'music' on the better --> best vinyls is indeed deemed more Lifelike than the digitized permutations"

I have a lovely A-B comparison on hand. I have a 1945 Wurlitzer 1015 Jukebox that plays 10" 78 rpm singles. Rhino records (god bless them) has released a number of boxed sets of these goodies specifically for the juke collector - complete with printed title strips.

I also have a nice pair of Mackie 824 near field reference monitors - absolutely flat in response these babies are what the pros listen to when mixing your high end content - one of the true gold standards in the audio world (yes different pros favor different models - but these are right up there).

I have several soul classics on both CD and 78 including "This Magic Moment" by the Drifters and several Aretha hits. The Wurly with its single 15" speaker and lovely array of 6L6's sounds better by far.

Ditto for all guitar amps I've used. My Mesa Boogie is the finest amplifier I've ever used.

I love tubes.
I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration.
Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:08:38 AM EDT
New Have you seen the Tubes Rock! T?
[link|http://www.geekculture.com/geekculturestore/webstore/tubesrock.html|or button or cap]?

Darrell Spice, Jr.

[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore

New toobs
Ditto for all guitar amps I've used. My Mesa Boogie is the finest amplifier I've ever used


Totally. Solid State amps cannot even come close to matching the presence, tone, and soul of a good tube amp. Even with today's amp/cab modeling technology. I've got an old Peavey Deuce with a plethora of 6L6s..enough to make your ears bleed..and a Fender Blues Jr. with 12AX7 pre, and EL-34 power sections.

However, I use a Behringer V-amp2 for practice and when playing at my Church. 120watts at glass-shattering decibels doesn't go over in church very well hehehe.

And Spicyguy: got the shirt :)
-----
Steve
New Beg to differ
Toobs are (prolly) real sweet for the various textures of guitars. They really can move from the sweet warble of a Gibson ES being squeezed by the likes of B.B., up to the overdriven wail of a Strat in full heat.

But for the Bass, tubes just don't make it!

Sorry, but the best bass amp yet to be made is the Acoustic 360 (and its later, bigger brother, the 370).. That sucker could coax funk, warmth, slap pop or just plain good ol' Grand Funk growl from a Fender Jazz to a gibson EB to a Rick 4002, long before many of those sounds required active electronics to fully realize. All solid state, all the time! (And it almost met my ultimate requirement for a bass amp: Turn it on, crank it up, stand it front of it, hit the open 'E' string, and have it knock my feet out from underneath me!)

I've cooked several dozen (prolly up to a hundred) 6L6GCs and 12AX7s (and 12AY7s) in Fender tube amps for decades. Thank Ghod for Radio Shack's "Lifetime" tube series (now, alas, discontinued). For bass, I personally don't want to hear any discussion about tubes, overdriven front-ends, or the like...you 6-stringers can run that forum to yer heart's content. Just gimme 4, fat strings, 37" of neck, and 250W of solid-state juice driving a 2-way...then get out my way!


[Edit: Fixed numerous requisite typos....]
jb4
"They lead. They don't manage. The carrot always wins over the stick. Ask your horse. You can lead your horse to water, but you can't manage him to drink."
Richard Kerr, United Technologies Corporation, 1990
Expand Edited by jb4 Jan. 21, 2003, 05:32:41 PM EST
New that wont work in the US
discs in most stores can only be exchanged for a identical title, no refunds allowed.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
New That would require persistence.
Bringing the CD back repeatedly "because it still doesn't work" will require the right sort of person. :-)

Wade.

"Ah. One of the difficult questions."

New Yo Bryce!
He's very persistent.
I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration.
Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:08:40 AM EDT
New And this is just the beginning...
...as the Brits appear to be the first to attempt to [link|http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/28015.html|outlaw fair use]

Peter, at least we can say that your Pigopolists got balls!

:-(
jb4
"About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. "
-- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002)
(I wish more managers knew that...)
     BMG adding copy protection to all its CDs - (admin) - (41)
         An even better one: EMI - (admin) - (4)
             Re: An even better one: EMI - (SpiceWare) - (1)
                 Besides... those people get money for those blanks - (jake123)
             Christian, translation check please? - (drewk) - (1)
                 Sorry about the delay... But yes, it's pretty much exact. -NT - (CRConrad)
         Won't slow the rippers down. - (static) - (15)
             Link for that discussion? - (admin) - (13)
                 It would have been on the mailing list. - (static) - (12)
                     I have been goin... - (folkert) - (10)
                         He might have posted it on SlashDot. - (static) - (9)
                             Gah... - (folkert)
                             What's his /. userid? - (kmself) - (7)
                                 xiphmont ? -NT - (altmann) - (1)
                                     That would be it. -NT - (static)
                                 Dam... - (folkert) - (4)
                                     You're really keen! :-) - (static) - (3)
                                         Duhh... dull as a... - (folkert) - (2)
                                             No, I was being serious. - (static) - (1)
                                                 Oh... so I did,,, - (folkert)
                     Something similar from an interview on April 4, 2000. - (Another Scott)
             Related: Schneier, The Futility of Copy Protection - (kmself)
         Wait until they see what this costs - (tuberculosis) - (18)
             Of course, they'll mis-read the "message". - (static) - (17)
                 Yes, retailers are very important. - (jake123) - (13)
                     I remember Philips saying that, too. - (static) - (12)
                         Hah..!__like the 'Walk-DVD Player' ? [scrap yer Old one !?] -NT - (Ashton) - (11)
                             It gets complicated. - (static) - (10)
                                 And overlaying all the digital permutations, remains.. - (Ashton) - (9)
                                     I'd forgotten your aspect on that. - (static) - (4)
                                         Ogg Vorbis - (Ashton) - (3)
                                             Vorbis ain't just for Linux - (drewk) - (2)
                                                 Thanks! - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                     Actually, q3 approximates MP3 @ 160, quality-wise. -NT - (static)
                                     Vinyls vs 1's and 0's - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                         Have you seen the Tubes Rock! T? - (SpiceWare)
                                         toobs - (Steve Lowe) - (1)
                                             Beg to differ - (jb4)
                 that wont work in the US - (boxley) - (2)
                     That would require persistence. - (static) - (1)
                         Yo Bryce! - (tuberculosis)
         And this is just the beginning... - (jb4)

Mercy is the mark of a great man. [stabs Atherton] Guess I'm just a good man. [stabs Atherton again] Well, I'm all right.
151 ms