Part of the problem is not only the leaders but the wonks

Post #57,471 by boxley 10/17/02 11:40:56 PM Reply	Part of the problem is not only the leaders but the wonks and not using humint properly. You need sleazoids and criminals and shooters and looters and cop types to penetrate, destroy these types of operators as well as to investigate. Western govs were burned in the 60's and 70's gutted their external ops folks. Even the french after hard ops in NZ got leery of turning out their best folks. Quite often rogue ops go bad but they go good enough times that cannot be discussed due to Natl Security and natural embarrasement that the good outweighs the bad. To use a classic example. Who got more hard core usable info Ghelen or Mueller? Yes Mueller was a nasty shit but was much more effective operationally than Ghelen. Any western govt has to have a deniable host of rogues and neer do wells working for them out of patriotic or other reasons that can be totally deniable. If you do not you are facing people who are willing to do the same to you and more. Do it, deny them if caught and scrifice them to legalities when needed. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] "Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane." Lyndon LaRouche
Post #57,475 by JayMehaffey 10/18/02 12:04:25 AM Reply	Unfortunatly we can't I agree with you in principle on this one Box. But we can't afford to give the FBI the ability to use deniable agents in the US. They are simply too biased and too political. Even today, peace groups and other left wing, non-violent, protest groups are more likely to be infiltrated and monitered by the FBI then right wing organizations with long histories of violence and crime. Worse yet, they have shown the willingness to protect criminals and even instigate crimes, when it suited their goals. Just look at the flame-up in Boston right now over the FBI and the Windhill gang. The FBI agents let a number of innocent men go to jail to protect informants that commited murder. Jay
Post #57,476 by boxley 10/18/02 12:24:35 AM Reply	nope nope nope you missed an important point deniability means if caught goto jail/execution etc. There is no free pass in a republic. We need people that are willing and able to go to jail and die if needs be. Liddy and I were at opposite ends of the gun in the 60's. He told his handler to off him if needs be. That is what I am looking for. Whoever runs this must be willing to die for his beliefs either by public trail and execution or by suicide if caught. Smith be thy name. No rats and a perfect cutout is needed. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] "Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane." Lyndon LaRouche
Post #57,480 by dmarker 10/18/02 3:38:08 AM Reply	Re: Bill, who were/are Ghelen & Mueller ?
Post #57,503 by boxley 10/18/02 9:35:52 AM Reply	Ghelen/Mueller SS/Gestapo respectively Ghelen head of German CIA under Adm Canaris Mueller head of counter intel (internal)Gestapo Police head. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] "Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane." Lyndon LaRouche
Post #57,484 by dmarker 10/18/02 5:48:23 AM Reply	Re: Yet another report with tantalising al-Qaeda glimpses [link\|http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/17/1034561266864.html\|From The Melbourne Age & Also mentioned in SCMP] Excerpted from 2nd half ... Mr Suyatmo said the probe was focusing on a group of eight people - seven Indonesians and one foreigner - who were being "intensively questioned". The Australian Federal Police are saying little about the inquiry for fear of offending their Indonesian counterparts. No group has claimed responsibility for the blasts, but suspicion has fallen on Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda and an Indonesian-based group, Jemaah Islamiah, which some link to al Qaeda. Mr Saaf said the explosives that demolished the Sari nightclub were packed into a Mitsubishi L300 van. "That car was left on the street. That is from analysis because there was no human flesh found inside it," he said. Investigators have said the C4 plastic explosives that were used were not made in Indonesia. An Indonesian newspaper reported yesterday that seven foreigners, led by a Yemeni and a Malaysian, masterminded and carried out the Bali bombings. The foreign group, which entered the country through Semarang, the main city in central Java on October 10, also included a European and two with links to a series of bombings in the Philippines, the Jakarta Post said. The group is believed to have prepared the explosives in Semarang before using them to blow up the two bars in Kuta. The Jakarta Post said that among the clues gathered by the intelligence services were phone calls to the Middle East from a house in Surakarta, a city 80 kilometres south-east of Semarang. Surakarta is one of the main bases of hardline Muslim groups. ************************************** More murk for us to wade through ... Doug M

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