and just wait until desit jumps in he hates harleys. :-) I think that most tubbies (tubby urban biker boys) would know how to sling a wrench if it bounced off their forhead. Honda riders want to go fast efficiently. Harley riders want to be seen(all show and no go). Now if you are talking 1%ers (outlaw bikers) then the bikes are built from scratch and they do like crazy and mean, but they are not mainstream harley riders anymore.
thanx,
bill