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New Some more OpEd pieces for your consideration.
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17584-2001Aug15.html|Krauthammer at WashPost - "The Only Way Out"] which argues that withdrawl and putting up a wall are necessary, after a war on Arafat.

[link|http://www0.mercurycenter.com/premium/opinion/columns/mideastcom16.htm|Fuller at SanJoseMercuryNews (originally on LaTimes) - "Build a Berlin Wall in the Middle East"] with similar arguments, but he doesn't advocate a war first.

I think either version of a wall around Israel would be a disaster because it wouldn't solve the problem but merely breed more resentment. Russia's war in Chechnya hasn't lessened the will of those who want them off of their land...

[link|http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-000066459aug16.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Dcomment|Moore at LaTimes - "Force Is Poor at Stifling Terrorism"] argues that force isn't going to make Israel safer.

[...]
Each time Israel conducts an assassination operation in the territories, or when settlers randomly fire on Palestinian homes and vehicles, lives of innocents are threatened--and often lost--and thus the cycle of retaliation is ensured. Moreover, the lack of any legal pretext for such actions places Israel outside the self-proclaimed ethical bounds held central to its foundation and continued existence.

Contrary to repeated Israeli and U.S. statements regarding Yasser Arafat's ability to control extremists, divisions within Palestinian government and society--exacerbated by U.S. and Israeli demands for state-like action from an increasingly illegitimate non-state entity--render unrealistic the demands to control every potential terrorist action.

These statements merely increase popular support for extremists.

Even within those groups, either directly sponsoring or linked to terrorist acts, there are multiple divisions and no cohesive and accountable hierarchy. Fatah, the secular movement which Arafat heads, itself is divided. The absence of a real Israeli or U.S. willingness to promote a politically, economically stable Palestinian state makes it impossible for Arafat to justify mass arrests and detentions of anti-Israeli extremists. Moreover, by asking the Palestinian Authority to conduct mass arrests and detentions, Israel and the U.S. are reinforcing the PA's repressive instincts; do Israel and the United States want the PA to discard notions of democracy and human rights in favor of actions more akin to regimes in Syria or Iraq?

This pressure not only garners even greater Arab distrust of U.S. policy in the region but also needlessly endangers American as well as Israeli lives while promoting the creation of yet another authoritarian Arab regime.

There can be no justification for terrorism. Israel's dependence on assassination and military intimidation--methods centered on terror and fear--to combat extremism and impose an overtly pro-Israeli settlement jeopardizes innocent Israeli lives.

A stable, politically and economically viable Palestinian state is essential for Israel's security. Without a counter-terrorism policy that prioritizes such development, Israeli leaders are guaranteeing prolonged bloodshed.


I agree with Moore. I know you don't.

But do you agree with Krauthammer and Fuller that a wall of separation is needed? How would you solve the problems in Israel's relations with the Palestinians if not through negotiations with Arafat?

Best of luck, bluke.

Cheers,
Scott.
New No easy solution
Natan (Anatoly) Sharansky, who was a prisoner of conscience in the Soviet Union for years and is now a minister in the Israeli Government, made the following point. You can't make peace with a dictator. There are a number of reasons, the main one being it is in his interest to keep tensions high, it justifies his harsh rule, otherwise people will turn against him. Imagine if Arafat had accepted Barak's deal at Camp David, he would have a state. However, his rule would be in peril. People would start to wonder where are all the billions of dollars that were given to the PA? Why is it that so many people are still in refugee camps? Why is it that there is no freedom etc? Instead no one in the PA will really criticize Arafat for corruption etc. because Israel is the greater enemy. The same applies to Syria. Assad could not make peace with Israel, if he did how could he justify the martial law (which has been in effect since 1963)?

There is another problem. As I have pointed out many times, PA (and Arab)incitement has been going on for years. This has completely poisoned the atmosphere.

Based on this, I don't see a near term solution. The only way things will change is when the Arab society opens up to the world and becomes more democratic.
New If Arafat had accepted Barak's deal at Camp David...
he would be a dead man and you know it. The other Palestinians would kill him. For a dictator, he is weak.

Agree there is no easy solution. More so since the Israeli hard-liners took control.
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Expand Edited by a6l6e6x Aug. 16, 2001, 04:09:30 PM EDT
New and your solution is ?
negotiate accords with whom? Nothing signed has ever been held by the PA and in response Israel. Why bother with the PA at all? Just make peace with Jordan, get the borders between the two squared away and let the people who ran the country pre 67, run it again. The Jordanians. Let them deal with the refugee's why do these people need their own country? they already have one, Jordan who like as not would machine gun the pile of them.
they did last time.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Then why bother negotiate with him?
What is the point, according to you Arafat can never sign a deal because he is too weak, unless Israel completely capitulates. According to you, the only solution is to wait until the Palestinians are really ready to negotiate.
New Moore is right on!
Thanks for the link.
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
New Who would you negotiate with?
According to you if Arafat had signed the Camp David deal he would be dead. So who do you suggest Israel negotiate with, the air?
New Well, Sharon and the Hamas seem to be working
from the same plan. Last one standing, wins!

At this point, the extremists on both sides are in control. Negotiations would be a waste of time.
Alex

Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
-- Anne Frank
     Mideast Myths Exploded - (bluke) - (11)
         Taking advantage of the US's lack of leadership perhaps? - (Ashton)
         And this is different from the Haganah "freedom fighters"? - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
             And this is different from the Haganah "freedom fighters"? - (bluke)
         Some more OpEd pieces for your consideration. - (Another Scott) - (7)
             No easy solution - (bluke) - (3)
                 If Arafat had accepted Barak's deal at Camp David... - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                     and your solution is ? - (boxley)
                     Then why bother negotiate with him? - (bluke)
             Moore is right on! - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                 Who would you negotiate with? - (bluke) - (1)
                     Well, Sharon and the Hamas seem to be working - (a6l6e6x)

I used to use rot-13, but I decided I needed something at least twice as strong. So now I use rot-26 to encode all of my transmissions.
59 ms