You bring out an excellent point

Post #53,370 by screamer 9/26/02 3:16:20 PM Reply	You bring out an excellent point and one of the reasons why a good rewrite of the Amendments is due every now and then. I might be a bit off base here(?) but using the 1'st Ammendment that you were nice enough to quote, how does the prayer in school issue square with the line Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... It seems to me that if congress passed a law forbidding prayer in school they are not "making no law... prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Interpretation is 9/10ths of the law, right? Kids today are not dumb nor are the adults wise. They both have representatives on either side. The First Amendment seems mutually exclusive with regards to estabishing/forbidding religion... I have always operated under the notion that formal prayer in school is not a good idea in that (as Brandioch noted) which prayer is to be said - Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Judaic, or even more finely split; Catholic, Methodist, Pentacostal... It's not like there aren't enough places of worship for those who want them... Having stated that, I don't read the "smoking gun" statement in the First Amendment that would deny prayer in school. Just a few thoughts, Screamer As soon as you're born they make you feel small By giving you no time instead of it all Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all J. Lennon - Working Class Hero
Post #53,384 by a6l6e6x 9/26/02 5:09:35 PM Reply	Re: prohibiting the free exercise thereof... "There's a time and place for everything". Like freedom of speech and shouting "Fire!". Pray all you want, in the the way you want, in your place of worship, at home, in your mind, whatever. For all I care, you can be cutting off roosters' heads and painting yourself with the blood. But, please, not at the airport! :) In a public place, even loud vocal prayer is at least presumptive and possibly offensive. To repeat Ashton, "Let us prey!". Alex The sun will set without thy assistance. -- The Talmud
Post #53,386 by screamer 9/26/02 5:29:44 PM Reply	Partial agreement... Offensive speech, though unpopular, is protected under the first amendment. I think that is what lies in the core of my objection to the current (this and last generation's) interpretation of the "separation of church and state argument" which is supposedly based on the First Amendment. From my "non-lawerly" perspective, I do not believe that the language is vague, that the congress shall "pass no law" regarding the free exercise thereof. It makes no specific mention of public places. I could almost argue that the First protects prayer in school. A few things to keep in mind about my argument... I am agnostic and don't "appreciate" the fact that I was made to recite the Lord's Prayer and the 23rd psalm every day in grade school (public one no less - yes, I'm that old). My best friend all throughout my school years was Jewish. I think it would be "fair" to expect that church's would start each sermon with the Star Spangled Banner and lose their tax exempt status, if prayer in school is mandatory :-) In other words, as is the case with most complex issues, I don't see this as black and white. I was taking exeption to your using the First as support for not allowing prayer in school. I can think of hundreds of reasons why I think it not be done, but I think the First clearly says that we shouldn't look to it for support? Perhaps? Just a few thoughts, Screamer As soon as you're born they make you feel small By giving you no time instead of it all Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all J. Lennon - Working Class Hero
Post #53,398 by Brandioch 9/26/02 6:18:50 PM Reply	Not prohibiting it. Prohibiting instituting it. No one is going to stop you from bowing your head and praying silently. But when the school sets aside time for it, that is a problem.
Post #53,475 by jb4 9/27/02 9:08:13 AM Reply	I got it! Should an "instituion" ~~coerce~~institute some time for ~~prayer~~"private meditation", we should pull out a Walkman and "privately meditate" on an old Church of Anthrax tape! Should fit the buill nicely... jb4 "About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. " -- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002) (I wish more managers knew that...)
Post #53,482 by Simon_Jester 9/27/02 9:33:23 AM Reply	I always wanted to see Prayer brought to school... particularly as a teenager... I always felt that the Wiccans were onto something. (For those who don't know - (some) Wiccans pray in the nude.)

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