What Scott said

Post #52,008 by tuberculosis 9/17/02 8:37:27 AM 8/21/07 12:46:12 PM Reply	What Scott said Plus: If you are using Visual Source Safe (and I have reason to suspect you are from your .NET post) ditch it now and move all your stuff to CVS. Even Microsoft doesn't put their code into VSS. Its a toy. Use as much open source stuff as you can. You have to have stages like open development, then bug fix only, then showstopper bugfix only. At open development and bugfix it takes two people to check in some code (peer reviews required). At showstopper it takes full team consensus to make a change. I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns. Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:46:12 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #52,027 by wharris2 9/17/02 11:15:14 AM Reply	Re: What Scott said If you are using Visual Source Safe (and I have reason to suspect you are from your .NET post) ditch it now and move all your stuff to CVS. Even Microsoft doesn't put their code into VSS. Its a toy. CVS, RCS, almost anything would be better than VSS. :=) I've heard decent things about ClearCase's configuration management, but shoot, even clunky Make scripts would be better than nothing. The lawyers would mostly rather be what they are than get out of the way even if the cost was Hammerfall. - Jerry Pournelle
Post #52,029 by admin 9/17/02 11:17:21 AM Reply	I've heard good things about MKS Morton Kern Systems or whatever it is. Avoid PVCS too. It's... not good. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #52,155 by tuberculosis 9/18/02 3:39:02 AM Reply	ClearCase My experience with ClearCase screams "PASS". Come to think of it, all of Rational's products leave me feeling this way. The key problem with ClearCase is that its too clever for its own good. Its implemented as a foreign file system. So it tries to pretend its part of your file system but the illusion isn't quite good enough. You have to use their file manipulation tools. So you can't say rm file, its ccrm file (or something like that). Its easy to forget whether the directory you are working on is a cc thing or a regular thing and pick the wrong tool. It also entail rather tight OS integration and its upgrade cycle has held back critical OS patches from the dev group. I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Post #52,031 by jlalexander 9/17/02 11:26:14 AM Reply	Re: What Scott said Yeah, I've been pushing to get us out of VSS. As you said, I've had nothing but problems with it (versions mysteriously disappear, file corruption, and on and on). I've been promoting CVS, but our "toy programmers" are spoiled on the IDE integration (argh, silly). Personally, I'd think that version integrity alone would be enough to warrant switching. Oh well. Let them get bit a few times, then we'll see how quickly they look to another solution. ---- My pid is Inigo Montoya. You "killed -9" my parent process. Prepare to vi.
Post #52,034 by admin 9/17/02 11:30:29 AM Reply	What Scott said this time [link\|http://www.kryptonians.net/cvs/wincvs_and_ide.html\|CVS Plug In for Visual Studio] Not sure if it works for .NET, but it's a start on finding out. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #52,035 by drewk 9/17/02 11:36:19 AM Reply	Try TKCVS Right [link\|http://www.twobarleycorns.net/tkcvs.html\|here]. There are bunches of other gui frontends for CVS. You also might want to look at [link\|http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/\|Subversion]: The goal of the Subversion project is to build a version control system that is a compelling replacement for CVS in the open source community. The software is released under an Apache/BSD-style open source license. Much of the new frontend development seems to be moving towards this instead of CVS. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #52,037 by admin 9/17/02 11:38:40 AM Reply	It's not the GUI he needs... It's the integration of CVS with the dev tools; namely, Visual Studio .NET (or whatever they're calling it these days). Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #52,044 by drewk 9/17/02 12:14:53 PM Reply	Doh! Of course. I forgot how hard it is to launch two whole applications at once. Yeah, I know it can be convenient having the source control in the same listing as the dev tools. I'm just so used to keeping dev tools on one desktop, testing on another, and admin on a third that I don't usually think in terms of IDE. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #52,057 by jlalexander 9/17/02 1:58:34 PM Reply	Re: Doh! Yeah, and most of our senior staff here can handle having more then one application open. Unfortunately, we've gotten ourselves into a situation where we have alot of legacy developers that have a very, very limited skill set and ability. Over the years, they've attempted to mentor them, but unsuccessfully. Now, we're dealing with these issues when attempting to migrate away from VBScript to C#, from ASP to .NET, etc... we're growing up, and some of our more junior staff can't. Very interesting predicament to be in. Personally, I say trim the fat. But, again, I'm not the CTO (or even a manager) around here. So, meanwhile, my back hurts from having to carry them. Thanks for the link, Scott! That looks to be a great application to bring up. :) -Jason ---- My pid is Inigo Montoya. You "killed -9" my parent process. Prepare to vi.
Post #52,158 by tuberculosis 9/18/02 3:48:57 AM Reply	I'm in the same fix This company is 3 years old, has some multi-megabuck accounts, and has a web app written in ColdFusion on windows with vss and all the other lame tools that is (not so) slowly collapsing under its own weight. My comrade and I are here to: 1) Redesign the database schema (why? I mean, VARCHAR2's make great foreign keys - right?) 2) Rebuild a very complicated module using WebObjects 3) Build a standard widget set in WebObjects 4) Train the developers in basic Java, OO thinking, and modern open source tools 5) Figure out how to move a fair chunk of development to Poland where we also have to do 4 We'll see how the training goes... I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Post #52,156 by tuberculosis 9/18/02 3:41:20 AM Reply	Subversion Looks like its going to be really cool when (if?) it grows up. But I've been watching that project for 2 years and I still don't have the confidence in it to trust my code to it. Maybe a couple more years. I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Post #52,038 by drewk 9/17/02 11:39:04 AM Reply	Oh, and one other thing Oh well. Let them get bit a few times, then we'll see how quickly they look to another solution. Three words: Melissa, ILoveYou, CodeRed. It takes significantly more than "a few times" for Microsoft addicts to look elsewhere. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #52,033 by ChrisR 9/17/02 11:30:03 AM Reply	Visual Source Safe... ...the NotePad of version control software. :-)

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