But wait, it gets worse!

Post #49,231 by orion 8/13/02 2:53:00 PM Reply	But wait, it gets worse! At the St. Louis Airport, they held up someone who had an alarm clock that looked like a bomb. Plastic TNT sticks, six of them, with wires coming out to an alarm clock. Can't even joke with them over this stuff. Also a woman was forced to drink her own breast milk that she pumped for her baby to use on the plane. The security guards said they wanted her to show the other passingers that it was safe and not poison. She of course has filed a lawsuit. I heard it on a local radio, but I am not sure of the source or details. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #49,253 by Ashton 8/13/02 5:50:59 PM Reply	I (and perhaps many?) will not be flying soon.. And the idiocy which shall contribute to the bankruptcy of maybe most? all? carriers next - comes from the bankruptcy of our imaginations from the top on down. First the Medal of Honor as weapon, now breast milk: whom would she be poisoning = a question not even within the digital mind. Watch for: the Ronnie-type strike prohibitions; this time not just the controllers but (all those unpaid $8/hr. folks) and another.. War on People Not Flying As Much .. as they Should. Ashton sorry about you folks who have to fly Corp biz..
Post #49,280 by wharris2 8/13/02 9:25:31 PM Reply	The entire bureaucracy is too annoying for words Not allowing pilots to arm themselves (many of said pilots who were in the military and who, except perhaps for a needing a refresher course, should know how to handle firearms), while directing fighter pilots to shoot down entire airplanes is another symptom of the madness that has infected Our Noble Government in the guise of "homeland security". The terrorists, by causing such knee-jerk reactions, have already won a sizable victory. The lawyers would mostly rather be what they are than get out of the way even if the cost was Hammerfall. - Jerry Pournelle
Post #49,346 by Brandioch 8/14/02 11:55:11 AM Reply	Yup. Although I wouldn't have the pilot being armed as the defense on the aircraft. I'd still rather have a dedicated gunner on each flight. The pilot can be armed to protect himself and in case the gunner is taken out. Defense in depth. Layer your security.
Post #49,558 by Simon_Jester 8/16/02 9:41:08 AM Reply	I just find the whole arming pilots thing funny... arm the pilot...don't arm the pilot. Heh...let me get this straight...the pilot is in control of the aircraft from start to finish. He DOESN'T (and now probably WON'T) give up control of the aircraft to anyone for anything. Hijacker: "Give me control of the aircraft or I'll kill a stewardess!" Pilot: "Drop the knife or I fly the aircraft into the ground and kill everyone!" (Sigh, of course - a less violent means might be to give the pilot control of the pressuration of the plane - and have a mask with oxygen for them. Sleepy time for everyone. Certainly better than some of the in-flight movies.)
Post #49,580 by inthane-chan 8/16/02 12:34:34 PM Reply	"The Bigger Weapon." IIRC, a Niven story about some guy who pretends he's suicidal to deal with an attempted hijacking by a hitchhiker. Actually, they've already talked about neg-G maneuvers, partial depressurization of the cabin, etc. in other forums - at least, one of the books you guys recommended (How Did This Happen?) pointed that out. Suggested that those procedures combined with air marshalls + secure cockpit seemed more likely to achieve the desired aims than the current "give the pilots guns" argument that everybody keeps having. There are 10 types of people. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Post #49,582 by Brandioch 8/16/02 12:55:07 PM Reply	Unless the guy with the knife kills the pilot. Various scenarios. First off is what are the hijacker(s) trying to accomplish. Do they want money in exchange for not killing passengers? Do they want a prisoner freed? Or do they want to use the plane as a weapon? I think that they need to look at ALL the scenarios and motivations and goals and then determine what is the BEST course of action for EACH scenario. "Take this plane to Cuba!" is quite different from the WTC attack.
Post #49,350 by tjsinclair 8/14/02 12:35:35 PM Reply	I was searched... My wife and I flew to Detroit recently (our first trip since 09/08) and I was pulled aside for additional scanning. Yeah, he checked my shoes (and looked a bit annoyed that I didn't raise them up very high) and I was frisked as well as scanned. At least he asked permission before he frisked me. "May I touch you below the knee?" Tom Sinclair "Everybody is someone else's weirdo." - E. Dijkstra

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