OpEd: the case for destabilization

Post #49,198 by marlowe 8/13/02 10:45:55 AM Reply	OpEd: the case for destabilization [link\|http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2002-08-10&id=2134\|To make an omelet, you gotta break a few eggs] Excerpt: What\ufffds the real long-term war aim of the United States? I\ufffdd say it\ufffds this \ufffd to bring the Middle East within the civilised world. How do you do that? Tricky, but this we can say for certain: you\ufffdll never be able to manage it with the present crowd \ufffd Saddam, the Ayatollahs, the House of Saud, Boy Assad, Mubarak, Yasser. When Amr Moussa, secretary-general of the Arab League, warns the BBC that a US invasion of Iraq would \ufffdthreaten the whole stability of the Middle East\ufffd, he\ufffds missing the point: that\ufffds the reason it\ufffds such a great idea. Suppose we buy in to Moussa\ufffds pitch and place stability above all other considerations. We get another 25 years of the Ayatollahs, another 35 years of the PLO and Hamas, another 40 years of the Baathists in Syria and Iraq, another 80 years of Saudi Wahabbism. What kind of Middle East are we likely to have at the end of all that? The region\ufffds in the state it\ufffds in because, uniquely in the non-democratic world, it\ufffds too stable. It\ufffds the stability of the cesspit. So if you want to destabilise the entire region, where\ufffds the best place to start? Answer: the regime that represents the height of the stability junkies\ufffd folly. It was the fetishisation of stability that led to Bush Sr, Colin Powell and co. leaving the Saddamites in power 11 years ago. In Britain, Joe Biden is known, if at all, as the only man in America crazy enough to try to become president by plagiarising Neil Kinnock (the stuff about being the only Kinnock, er, Biden, in a thousand generations to go to college). But in America he is, believe it or not, still a powerful Democratic senator and these days just about every ten minutes somewhere on your radio or TV dial you can hear him re-telling a pompous little anecdote in which he explains how he\ufffds warned Bush against taking out Saddam. \ufffdMr President,\ufffd he claims to have said, \ufffdthere is a reason your father stopped and did not go to Baghdad. The reason he stopped is he didn\ufffdt want to stay for five years.\ufffd And your point is...? By my arithmetic, that means we\ufffdd have been out in 1996. Sounds a good deal to me. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Everything's a mystery until you figure out how it works. Free Joel Mowbray! I'm a-gonna put a gun rack on my SUV.
Post #49,227 by Brandioch 8/13/02 2:33:00 PM Reply	H I S T O R Y WHY do we want to change the mid-east? Why can't we just leave them as they are? Allow me to refresh people's memory with what happened in the past when we "stabilized" the mid-east and worked our will on governments. Israel and Palestine. Remember, we were the ones sending "agricultural" grants to Saddam. We were the ones helping Osama fight the Russians. But we'll get it right THIS TIME! Everyone just has to buy into the idea that Version 4.0 will be THE version that brings "peace" to the mid-east. (and ensures cheap oil for Us)
Post #49,251 by Ashton 8/13/02 5:29:05 PM Reply	It's a most logical argument. It's the argument of every Authoritarian. After all, what is authoritarianism but, a tacit contract ~ I Know (the uniquely best decision to be made in any next event) + a sufficiently large gaggle of folks who (Believe That). Nice synergy - when you can get it. At ~ age 13, it's easy to look at a situation and decide how you'd forcibly eject and reinstall each unpleasantly Not-You player on the board. Prolly makes for great IT game smarts. (Or maybe.. great IT smarts leads to the delusion that human affairs can be diagrammed and an algorithm found: a uniquely correct one) Hah! You merely want to extirpate a bunch of local leaders, reconstruct a few ancient cultures within a considerable land area [with oil]: all fuelled by the same sort of theological sociopathy as is found in the extremes of our local theosophists: and Make It All Well. Must be a kind of fun.. to see the world as just another NWN and all ya need is Human Events as blueprint to mold the millions into your mindset (The Correct One). Megalomania fun maybe - even the Pope claims infallibility only in matters of faith and morals! [and he gets to 'define' both! according to just his own mindset too, via that synergy mentioned] Cute idea for a board game, though.. maybe you should read some Bobbie Burns re the best laid plans of mice and men - Ashton Old English Prayer: Dear Lord, please protect me from the wrath of those who Know (also from: your Followers).
Post #49,284 by marlowe 8/13/02 10:06:03 PM Reply	You fear the wrath of those who know? I used to fear the interference of those who haven't got a clue. But I'm a lot less worried about y'all nowadays. Except the ones protected by the civil service union. They can still do real damage. And we'll straighten out that situation when we can get to it. Comin' through. Make way and watch your toes. And pardon us for having a clue. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Everything's a mystery until you figure out how it works. Free Joel Mowbray! I'm a-gonna put a gun rack on my SUV.
Post #49,290 by boxley 8/13/02 10:22:50 PM Reply	you on the "day of the rope" commitee? Neat! Dont think the crew in DC has much of a clue. We supported the islamists to keep the socialists/commies out and are now paying the price. What we need is an unstable middle east. The following will indicate why the Israeli Army outnumbers the US army so a general war would seriously fsck some countries up. Jordan has to play a timid game because of Iraq and the Palestinians. If Israel rolled into Iraq at the same time we came boiling out of Turkey it would be a done deal. The easiest way would be to Polish border the Jordinian/Iraqi border. A few prisoners attacking a Jordanian Radio Tower would suffice the blitz into bhagdad, turn south to mecca, stop respectfully outside while the hashemite kingdom slaughter every wahabi in site then invite the Iranians, Pashto, Indonesian and Sufis to partition the city withe the Hashemites. Meanwhile we secure our oilfields and invite the russians to join in. As long as we stay the hell out of the bend in the volga we will be ok. thanx, bill ."Once, in the wilds of Afghanistan, I had to subsist on food and water for several weeks." W.C. Fields
Post #49,331 by jb4 8/14/02 9:25:51 AM Reply	Yup, that pretty much describes it, don't it? I used to fear the interference of those who haven't got a clue. Yes, that describes the current administration very nicely. So why do you no longer fear them? jb4 "About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. " -- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002) (I wish more managers knew that...)
Post #49,358 by Mike 8/14/02 2:11:26 PM 8/14/02 2:12:33 PM Reply	Unforunately.... I think "destabilization" is simply being used as a euphemism for mass suffering caused by catastrophic change. I mean WE get all upset if an outside force simply destabilizes our stock market. Imagine how we might react if somone came along and destabilized our legal system, our political system and took away instant replay for use by NFL judges? Not funny now! I think it was Durkheim who pointed out the differences between societies based on "mechanical solidarity" and those based on "organic solidarity". Any attempts to impose our will on these countries will not result in organic solidarity for them. It will be artificial and resented. In short I don't think we will be able to impose the "right" answer on them. The reasons why Western governments and societies are (internally) relatively stable and peaceable is that most of us have come to accept that our current system emerged over time. ie. It wasn't imposed or influenced by an outside force. Imagine how resentful we might be if we discovered that the US is in fact owned by a select few who impose their own agendas on the government by subsidising their getting into power in the first place? (Hang on........need to think that over). If we dropped Britney Spears from 30,000 feet......how would that be? My point is......destabilization followed by......what? Destabilize. Destabilize. Destabilize. If that fails...destabilize again. If that fails destabilize some more. If that fails.......keep destabilizing. From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put. Sir Winston Churchill Edited by Mike Aug. 14, 2002, 02:12:33 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #49,377 by marlowe 8/14/02 4:39:24 PM Reply	And "stability" is a euphemism for mass suffering caused by ...the same old shit. At least with instability there's a chance things will get better. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Everything's a mystery until you figure out how it works. We are here to go!
Post #49,410 by boxley 8/14/02 9:16:30 PM Reply	yer learning, we'll make an anarchist out of you yet! ."Once, in the wilds of Afghanistan, I had to subsist on food and water for several weeks." W.C. Fields
Post #49,573 by marlowe 8/16/02 11:15:20 AM Reply	Not likely. My way of thinking is far too nuanced for such a simplistic philosophy. I've see enough chaos to know that not all chaos is the same. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Everything's a mystery until you figure out how it works. We are here to go!
Post #49,462 by Mike 8/15/02 12:01:05 PM Reply	Yes I take your point Its quite likely that change could improve things for people living in Iraq. But with regards to the destiny of people in Egypt, Libya, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iran etc.......its easy to envisage scenarios in which things would get worse. -- William Shatner's Trousers --

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