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IWETHEY Home / IWETHEY Board / Jobs Forum / Ahh, ye of little HR experience
Post #48,327
by broomberg
8/6/02 6:24:27 AM
Reply
New Ahh, ye of little HR experience
It is FAR harder to fire a bad programmer
who happened to be a good liar than it
was to hire him.

Even when you figure out they are worthless,
expect to hold on to them for another 3
months, minimum.

And during that timeframe, you have to attempt
to have them do real work, which means they
will screw it up, and increase your workload.

Which will effectively TRIPLE your workload
until they are replaced.

Screw that. Test them.
Post #48,500
by ben_tilly
8/6/02 10:46:34 PM
Reply
New I would like to believe...
that they would not impress me as competent unless there was something good to be said for them.

Yeah, I am pretty likely wrong. But I don't know of any cases where I have failed yet.

Note that I do give interviewees coding questions. Admittedly carefully chosen so that you could answer them without understanding Perl specifically, but not ones that you can get by just having a few memorized acronyms. (For instance figure out what this code does, why it is slow, and how to fix it.)

Another type of question I like is "explain to me". I will take a basic concept that the person should know (eg for various languages I can ask about OO) and say, "Pretend that I know nothing about X. Explain X to me." I then proceed to interrupt their explanations with "stupid questions" (based on my honest guesses of where a novice might be derailed). It is amazing how quickly people for whom programming was always a black box where you just followed the template that worked get derailed on that one.

I may be foolable. But I don't think that liars in particular find me easy to bypass.

Cheers,
Ben
"Perl is like vice grips. You can do anything with it, and it's the wrong tool for every job."
--Unknown
     Unemployed programmer seeking advice... (Is that all <g>) - (rsteiner) - (62) - July 30, 2002, 01:38:12 PM EDT
         Your list looks OK - (wharris2) - (2) - July 30, 2002, 01:47:26 PM EDT
             Good thoughts... Thanks! - (rsteiner) - (1) - July 30, 2002, 01:55:31 PM EDT
                 c and perl on solaris and linux - (boxley) - July 30, 2002, 02:02:34 PM EDT
         The "in thing" now is canning programmers - (tablizer) - (9) - July 30, 2002, 02:46:25 PM EDT
             IT Rust Belt - by Bob Lewis - (tablizer) - (8) - July 30, 2002, 11:58:59 PM EDT
                 Key point - (broomberg) - Aug. 1, 2002, 09:46:38 AM EDT
                 Writing code is *FUN* for me... - (rsteiner) - (6) - Aug. 1, 2002, 04:28:52 PM EDT
                     Ditto here. - (inthane-chan) - Aug. 1, 2002, 07:29:20 PM EDT
                     I love coding, BUT... - (gdaustin) - Aug. 3, 2002, 12:01:42 PM EDT
                     No slider widget for $ - (tablizer) - (3) - Aug. 7, 2002, 05:30:45 PM EDT
                         Re: No slider widget for $ - (rsteiner) - (2) - Aug. 7, 2002, 05:57:33 PM EDT
                             It isn't whether you mind it more... - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Aug. 7, 2002, 06:25:30 PM EDT
                                 Heh... - (rsteiner) - Aug. 8, 2002, 05:50:18 PM EDT
         Re: Unemployed programmer seeking advice... - (admin) - (8) - July 30, 2002, 03:02:52 PM EDT
             DB2 versus Oracle - (tablizer) - (1) - July 30, 2002, 03:21:00 PM EDT
                 But tab - you're a shoe in! - (gdaustin) - July 30, 2002, 06:13:56 PM EDT
             Where to get Oracle? - (lincoln) - (5) - July 31, 2002, 10:30:46 AM EDT
                 Re: Where to get Oracle? - (admin) - (4) - July 31, 2002, 11:02:27 AM EDT
                     Which is why I like Oracle - (orion) - (3) - July 31, 2002, 11:40:17 AM EDT
                         unless you count time - (tablizer) - (2) - July 31, 2002, 11:06:26 PM EDT
                             Overpaid DBAs? - (broomberg) - (1) - July 31, 2002, 11:27:01 PM EDT
                                 One More Thing - (gdaustin) - Aug. 3, 2002, 11:14:23 AM EDT
         Not a bad list - (tuberculosis) - (2) - July 30, 2002, 03:31:20 PM EDT
             nit fuel - (tablizer) - (1) - July 30, 2002, 05:42:43 PM EDT
                 Yes but those people are wrong :-P -NT - (tuberculosis) - July 31, 2002, 03:25:32 AM EDT
         Unsuprisingly I will suggest picking up a scripting language - (ben_tilly) - (5) - July 30, 2002, 10:10:02 PM EDT
             Thanks, Ben... - (rsteiner) - (4) - Aug. 1, 2002, 04:35:32 PM EDT
                 Re: Thanks, Ben... - (broomberg) - (3) - Aug. 1, 2002, 05:58:57 PM EDT
                     Why not? - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Aug. 1, 2002, 08:51:07 PM EDT
                         Dunno - (broomberg) - (1) - Aug. 4, 2002, 10:08:32 AM EDT
                             Perhaps... - (ben_tilly) - Aug. 5, 2002, 06:56:34 AM EDT
         Teach? - (andread) - (1) - July 31, 2002, 12:50:09 PM EDT
             Not for me, I'm afraid... - (rsteiner) - Aug. 1, 2002, 04:36:14 PM EDT
         Hi! - (deSitter) - (3) - July 31, 2002, 05:06:12 PM EDT
             Requirements for the IT jobs - (orion) - July 31, 2002, 10:13:54 PM EDT
             Hullo! - (rsteiner) - (1) - Aug. 1, 2002, 04:41:30 PM EDT
                 Boo Hoo OS/2 - (deSitter) - Aug. 2, 2002, 09:31:07 AM EDT
         My biased opinion: - (broomberg) - (16) - July 31, 2002, 11:16:22 PM EDT
             Be Specific - (deSitter) - (2) - Aug. 1, 2002, 08:54:59 AM EDT
                 Re: Be Specific - (broomberg) - (1) - Aug. 1, 2002, 09:35:32 AM EDT
                     Danke -NT - (deSitter) - Aug. 1, 2002, 12:38:43 PM EDT
             Re: My biased opinion: - (rsteiner) - (3) - Aug. 1, 2002, 04:53:28 PM EDT
                 Re: My biased opinion: - (broomberg) - (2) - Aug. 1, 2002, 05:49:32 PM EDT
                     Only consider 'C' if you're interested in embedded prog. -NT - (tonytib) - (1) - Aug. 1, 2002, 06:57:34 PM EDT
                         C is still guts of lots of stuff - (wharris2) - Aug. 2, 2002, 01:48:54 PM EDT
             Don't master many, but at least be exposed to several? - (ben_tilly) - (8) - Aug. 1, 2002, 08:47:24 PM EDT
                 I wouldn't - (broomberg) - (7) - Aug. 4, 2002, 11:42:20 AM EDT
                     Query - (ben_tilly) - (6) - Aug. 5, 2002, 07:02:46 AM EDT
                         Poor example - (broomberg) - (5) - Aug. 5, 2002, 07:39:23 PM EDT
                             Haggling - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Aug. 5, 2002, 08:51:00 PM EDT
                                 It's in my blood, I have to - (broomberg) - (3) - Aug. 5, 2002, 09:13:56 PM EDT
                                     I think you missed my reference - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Aug. 5, 2002, 09:52:10 PM EDT
                                         Ahh, ye of little HR experience - (broomberg) - (1) - Aug. 6, 2002, 06:24:27 AM EDT
                                             I would like to believe... - (ben_tilly) - Aug. 6, 2002, 10:46:34 PM EDT
         Try SouthWest Airlines... - (gdaustin) - (5) - Aug. 3, 2002, 12:32:04 PM EDT
             Heh. - (rsteiner) - (4) - Aug. 4, 2002, 02:56:00 AM EDT
                 You might check out the Seagate & such - (tonytib) - (1) - Aug. 4, 2002, 06:51:58 PM EDT
                     It's a thought -- I'll check it out. - (rsteiner) - Aug. 6, 2002, 01:00:50 AM EDT
                 Might try ING or Wells Fargo - (gdaustin) - (1) - Aug. 5, 2002, 10:27:56 PM EDT
                     Not really... - (rsteiner) - Aug. 6, 2002, 01:18:33 AM EDT
         This made me think of you - (broomberg) - (1) - Aug. 5, 2002, 07:47:03 PM EDT
             Heh. :-) - (rsteiner) - Aug. 6, 2002, 01:21:52 AM EDT

We're talking "filled with angry bees" levels of agony.
202 ms