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New Re: Your response ignores the message
Your reaction is to shoot the messanger who is as pro US as one can get -
Being pro US doesn't mean switching off one's brain & ignoring the obvious -
One message I conveyed was that *no* other major country but UK supports an invasion - even UK is in doubt as backbenchers start to raise the issue in parliment. Point I made was 'are all these other countries just stupid or igno rant, or don't understand the region'. I guess Kofi Annand doesn't count.

The problem with being bombarded with excessive propaganda is that it works - being outside the US at times of intense propaganda is a blessing. I was in/out of US during the tirades against the evil Norriega ("we sure kicked that evil bastards ass" - ignore his relationship with the CIA).

I am certainly sensing from the tone of many posts lately that an increasing number of y'all are feeling worked up about this 'invade Iraq' issue. I suspect partly out of frustration (propaganda barrage - you can't escape the issue) & part out of guilt (why do so many tell us what we want to do is wrong - damn them) & partly out of the desire to be seen as doing good (hell we know Saddam is a modern Hitler & we are the ones to take him out).

There comes a time when good analysis and debate begins to lose the ears & brains needed to work it through. Maybe we are there or at least close.

Cheers

Doug
Expand Edited by dmarker2 Aug. 5, 2002, 08:35:39 PM EDT
Expand Edited by dmarker2 Aug. 5, 2002, 10:00:44 PM EDT
New Fair again...
and yes, it is very possible that I have succumbed to some of the propaganda that is circulating in this country. It's hard to shelter oneselve, although believe me, I try...

I am a free thinker however. I hear and appreciate what you are saying, yet there is still a little voice inside that says, "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later". I'm old enough now to kind of see how this works with geopolitics and history. I don't think the US should act unilaterally, especially in light of objections from it's historically strongest allies. But what do you do with someone like Hussein? The world community (and the UN) have all stated that he is a problem... The post gulf war "surrender" terms included UN monitoring of his military ambitions. He threw them out. Of course they were spies... They were there to find out what was really going on because we don't trust him.

What options does this leave the "world community"? More sanctions? Really tough sanctions that starve out more of his own people... This is a true conundrum. Perhaps the "world community" has no taste for enforcement of it's own laws and treaties. It is not heroic for someone to step up to the plate. It is preventative... It is the dirty work. Not something to be "proud" of.

Should it be the United States under the umbrella of a war against terrorism? Perhaps not. But who, then. It is not like these kind of people just sort of disappear if you ignore them. It will never be "convenient" for the world to do the dirty work and there will always be objections. George Bush Sr. worked with the UN. In a way, he salvaged a dying organization. The League of Nations is a good idea, but it needs teeth to enforce. Random thoughts I have. Sorry for fu...

Dan
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer


Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think your so clever and classless and free
But your still fucking peasants as far as I see


J. Lennon - Working Class Hero
New Re: North Korea another case - Taiwan a worry ...

For want of a really bizzare dictator we should be after Nth Korea. Kim Il Sung & Ki, Jong Il his son (now the Dear Leader) truly must represent a threat to everyone.

In the past week news here in China has the Pres of Taiwan saying he would like to abandon the 1 China policy and hold a refferendum on independence for Taiwan, that speech has triggered deep rumblings here - locals know that China won't tolerate Taiwan breaking away from one China as it has the real potential to end up like a Cuba off America & would be used to play brinksmanship war scenarios in the way Russia used Cuba against US.

I share your frustration that Saddam survives, he isn't the ideal leader in the sense that like the Kim's he has created the leadership of a personality cult - not unlike Castro has. That can be good (rarely) but it tends to lead to the wiping out of capable rivals who can eventually take over in a stable environment.

Cheers

Doug
     The Economist - "The Case for War" - (Another Scott) - (29)
         Correct me if I'm wrong. - (Brandioch) - (28)
             Seems all a semantic problem. - (Ashton)
             Re: Not wrong - original post proves propaganda works - (dmarker2)
             Don't want to go into Ritter's claims, etc. - (Another Scott) - (23)
                 Re: From a historical perspective ... - (dmarker2) - (21)
                     Ummm ___Essay Questions here, not Multiple-Choice - (Ashton) - (20)
                         First use, N, B, C. - (Brandioch)
                         Re: Real purpose of questions was to contrast ... - (dmarker2) - (18)
                             Re that last: - (Ashton)
                             Want some cheese with that whine? - (screamer) - (16)
                                 Agree with the facts, but I question the conclusions. - (Brandioch) - (12)
                                     Fair... - (screamer) - (11)
                                         Um, Saddam got his weapons from the Soviets, not USA. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                             Chuckle...this is weird. - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                                 Salon on that subject. - (Brandioch)
                                             Fair... - (screamer)
                                             Re: Um, Saddam was manufacturing much of his own ...... - (dmarker2)
                                         What do they have to fear now? - (Brandioch) - (5)
                                             The prevailing westerly winds... - (screamer) - (4)
                                                 Prevailing westerly winds... and their fallout patterns - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                     Tough time for all... - (screamer) - (1)
                                                         No, not Iraq, Pakistan, India per se - it's about triggers. - (Ashton)
                                                 How to negotiate? - (Brandioch)
                                 Re: Your response ignores the message - (dmarker2) - (2)
                                     Fair again... - (screamer) - (1)
                                         Re: North Korea another case - Taiwan a worry ... - (dmarker2)
                 Is it just "enforcing"? - (Brandioch)
             Of course they're spies. - (marlowe) - (1)
                 You make it too easy. - (Brandioch)

Fifteen men on a dead man's chest, yo ho ho and a bottle of rye!
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