Post #47,283
7/28/02 5:10:30 PM
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Norm.
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/7/28/163659/707|http://www.kuro5hin...8/163659/707]
This really, really isn't what you want or need to do.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #47,287
7/28/02 5:52:55 PM
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NORM! Call me right now! Don't leave!
[link|mailto:fumanchu@aminus.net|fumanchu@aminus.net]
---------------------------------
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #47,292
7/28/02 9:59:08 PM
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Anyone know... Where he lives?? as in...
the exact address???
[link|http://phone.whowhere.lycos.com/telephone.psrch?fname=Norman&name=King&City=&state=MO&zip-code=|This is all I have!]
Anyone know?
greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
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Post #47,293
7/28/02 10:09:53 PM
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tseliot (Bob Brewer) contacted his dad
...which is about the best we've got going at the moment. I've got a few addresses through [link|http://people.yahoo.com|people.yahoo.com], not sure which are him.
DRL is in the neighborhood.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
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Post #47,295
7/28/02 10:49:30 PM
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Good... I also talked with Big Norm...
And with Orion himself... He has my phone number
Nuff said...
Now about YOUR phone numbers Karsten.... they ain't up-to-date
Bad Karsten... BBBAAADDDD Karsten... *SMACK*
Expect that scathing e-mail too...
greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
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Post #47,321
7/29/02 10:16:30 AM
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You guys are great. Thanks for checking on him.
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Post #47,335
7/29/02 11:30:42 AM
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You talked with orion since 4pm EST Sunday? So he's alive?
---------------------------------
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #47,344
7/29/02 12:11:24 PM
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As of the time I posted he was...
greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
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Post #47,437
7/30/02 1:25:16 AM
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Is he still alive?
Anyone know? I found out about this place from a K5 post that someone had linked to here. Is his name Orion or Norman? How do I contact him, or his family? I am doing a story on Discrimination of IT Workers and how they are affected mentally by a job loss. I need to know if the job caused any of his depression, and if the firm did anything to try to work with him to try and get rid of the depression or if they just fired him because he was depressed.
Email duke_gonzo@yahoo.com with the info, if you can. If he is still alive, have him contact me. I have no way to contact him.
I have found that a lot of young IT professionals have been discriminated against and suffer from some form of mental illness as a result. This is his chance to get his story told. This is not the first IT related attempted Suicide, and it won't be the last.
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Post #47,446
7/30/02 8:09:00 AM
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Have a look through our Jobs forum.
I believe that would be where most of his posts were put about his job situation. There are other threads in other places, too, such as General Q&A and perhaps a few in the PHB forum.
His real name is Norman; he resurrected the alias of "Orion" some months ago.
Wade.
"Ah. One of the difficult questions."
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Post #47,310
7/29/02 9:26:52 AM
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Re: Norm.
Kuro5hin not answering...what's going on?
jb4
"I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
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Post #47,313
7/29/02 9:45:11 AM
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link works here
I've got Norm's number somewhere, have to hunt for it tonight and give him a call. I stopped and had lunch with him on my trip up to visit my brother in Chicago last Xmas.
Darrell Spice, Jr.
[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #47,457
7/30/02 10:22:13 AM
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found it
but nobody was home :-( Left a message so he'd know I tried to call.
Darrell Spice, Jr.
[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #47,385
7/29/02 4:13:53 PM
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Check hosts file (!)
Neither was mine working, til I nuked an earlier address in hosts. Apparently they've changed servers of late.
(Not sure the small time-saving of evading URL-lookup is worth the hassle as folks regularly redo their networks.. I may just rename the sucker)
Ashton
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Post #47,400
7/29/02 6:16:46 PM
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Got it...
...Just some really slooooooowww proxies here...
Thanx!
jb4
"I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
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Post #47,324
7/29/02 10:26:36 AM
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Re: Norm.
He knows I am here and have offered help often. Sometimes I think an episode of acting out might be necessary to restore balance.
Norm resists all advice about how to go about living, even from someone who has "been there" when it comes to skating the edges. In such a case, what can one do? Depression is ultimately a form of self-indulgance and one can only learn that by too much experience with depressed people. For example - my neighbor is flaming out. I've seen it coming for months. When his lost his job because of his temper, he stupidly signed away his chance to get unemployment against my advice. Now he's broke and looking at the streets. I give him what money I can. This year alone I've invested at least $2500 in depressed people and in the end, all I am doing in enabling their self-indulgance. My ex-gf cost me untold thousands and lost years and at the end, she was worse than ever.
Note that temporary despair can happen to anyone who in under too much stress and suffers too much loss - everyone has a limit. But year-in, year-out depression is a sure sign of a narcissistic personality that, like a small baby, wants everything its own way and will not, cannot listen to adult advice. In such a case, I think the person really wants to know how to live self-sufficiently but cannot bear the tension of leaving the infantile state of dependence that goes with narcissism. So they "arrange" to lose jobs, houses, resources of all kinds in order to be thrown on their own devices apparently against their conscious will. The unconscious does what it can to break free. It can happen that the conscious will prevents it by suicide, the ultimate act of self-indulgance.
I am also quite convinced that the very worst thing for depression/narcissism is a system full of powerful psychoactive drugs. Getting drunk early and often would be a better solution than being a chemically induced emotional moron.
If this sounds hard-hearted, it isn't. I'm a complete sucker for any sob story and it has cost me dearly. But my experience is that the above is true. Depression and narcissism go hand in hand, and what the narcissist really needs is a kick in the pants and a fatherly admonition to wake up and smell the coffee. There are no guarantees in this world, and you get as much meaning from living as you put into it.
Again, if Norm is out there, you have my email and Boxer has my number. I'm here.
-drl
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Post #47,325
7/29/02 10:40:04 AM
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on yer number
took the last message, did the math on my phone and got some body who didnt know who I was talking about. Now I didnt write down the old number first so now its all fscked up
woxley at tsiconnections dot com
thanx,
bill
."Once, in the wilds of Afghanistan, I had to subsist on food and water for several weeks." W.C. Fields
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Post #47,361
7/29/02 1:37:26 PM
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on the way
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Post #47,331
7/29/02 11:20:16 AM
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There's depression
and Depression.
A head full of chemicals can be bad, it's true (especially if you are 'self medicating' - and alchohol is medication in this context) - but if the chemical balance in your brain is off to start with, those chemicals can be the only thing that keeps you, well, sane. Example: my favorite cousin was diagnosed with schizophrenia; her medicine 'muted' the voices in her head so that she could ignore them.
She then fell in with the wrong crowd - 'Green' nuts who convinced her that pharmaceuticals were categorically bad, and herbal remedies categorically good. She started medicating with those (ineffective) herbal potions and was, well, unbalanced in short order. In the instance when there is something physically wrong with the organ that 'runs' the mind, chemical treatment IS appropriate. (now, whether Norm's diagnosis and/or treatment is correct is another question entirely)
While I believe that like ADD, depression is over-diagnosed (in a pharmaceutical sense), that doesn't mean that Norm isn't afflicted. I don't know what I can do to help him (I'm in a bad way financially myself), but [link|mailto:lrpdimric@mail.refers.to|I too] am here...
Imric's Tips for Living- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Post #47,337
7/29/02 11:40:17 AM
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Interesting Example . .
Two friends of mine have been a couple for about 40 years now, one of those couples where the two are almost never out of each other's sight, and have had secret languages and all that sort of stuff (but have never been married due to political beliefs). They live together in a motor home and travel a lot.
A couple of years ago, it all started coming unglued with considerable unpleasantness. I witnessed one of the blowups first hand, the one in which Tom struck Peggy for the first time ever.
They visited several therapists without detectable results. Finally, they visited some psychiatrist lady, who listened politely to their story. Then she said, "Tom, you have a thyroid problem, here's a perscription, follow the directions and check back with me in two weeks".
Problem solved.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #47,339
7/29/02 11:44:02 AM
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gotta eat yer iodine
lotsa simple things can badly swack the brain. Low B vities can mimic mental illness as well.
."Once, in the wilds of Afghanistan, I had to subsist on food and water for several weeks." W.C. Fields
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Post #47,357
7/29/02 1:30:12 PM
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Re: Interesting Example . .
This is a damn sight different issue than the kind of year-in and out self-obsession that goes under the blanket term "depression". Of course physical ailments can cause behavioral changes.
-drl
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Post #47,333
7/29/02 11:28:32 AM
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Thank you, sir. I hoped you would add your voice.
---------------------------------
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #47,345
7/29/02 12:12:39 PM
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From a fellow sufferer.
Norm, I think you may be aware that I suffer from chronic depression as well. I've been through a lot of shit in my life. I've been dealt to from the bottom of the deck. I'm currently unemployed, and the dreams I have in my life (house, real job, friends, a kid or two) keep getting further away every day.
Each day I wake up, it's a good day. Just remember, no matter how shitty you've got it, it could be MUCH worse. I'm happy to be alive. I want to know what happens next. Not just to me, but the whole universe - there is so much OUT there that I don't know...
Curiosity is what will save your life. Try to rediscover some of that wonder you felt as a child, the sense of discovery and newness that made everything seem fresh every day.
Life sucks, then you die, then they put you in a hole in the ground, and then the worms eat you. Or if you're cremated, it's "then they put your ashes in a pot, and then you gather dust on a mantlepiece until somebody mistakes you for nondairy creamer, and you end up in the sewage. Be glad it happens in that order."
Norm, everybody has shit happen to them. Everybody, at some point in their life asks, "Why does shit always happen to me?" Then they look around, and notice that shit happens to everybody. Don't take it personally - the universe is out to get everybody else, too. Rejoice that you are alive, for there are literally billions of people who wish they were.
"So don't sit back and watch the world get bushwhacked
News at 10:00 your neighborhood is under attack
Put away the crack before the crack puts you away
You need to be there when your babies are old enough to relate"
Your son will thank you.
(And by the way - you've got something I don't. A child. You have no idea how JEALOUS I am of you.)
There are 10 types of people. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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Post #47,359
7/29/02 1:32:58 PM
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Comic relief
Just remember, no matter how shitty you've got it, it could be MUCH worse. Ever heard the "and a headache" theory? "There is no human condition so horrible that it can't be made worse by the addition of a headache." - "I've got arthritis, gout and tennis elbow." And a headache.
- "I've got a broken leg, a crushed hand, and a lacerated liver." And a headache.
- "I've got disobedient children, a cheating wife, and a dog that shits in the house." And a headache.
See? It can always be worse. ===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #47,382
7/29/02 3:52:15 PM
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Yeah, well, but my condition is...
"I've got a headache".
Christian R. Conrad
Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time. -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #47,387
7/29/02 4:23:08 PM
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And if you could add a headache to that ...
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #47,427
7/29/02 11:36:15 PM
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Gone from "There is no human condition so horrible..."
"...that it can't be made worse by the addition of a headache" -- i,e, "it *can* always be made worse by the addition of a headache" -- to "IF you could add a headache to that"!
Thing is, that wouldn't hurt me none, 'coz I *already* have one, and in this case -- 1+1=1 !
(Yeah, yeah, sure; the headache was "just an example", right...? But... Whatever example you try, I can make *that* my original condition!)
Christian R. Conrad
Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time. -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #47,452
7/30/02 9:20:16 AM
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OK, Mr. Smartypants...
So now go and stub your toe.
There!
See?
;-)
jb4
"I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
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Post #47,485
7/30/02 1:46:40 PM
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There's a theory..
that to get away from some dull throbbing pain - hurt something Else!
..and for a bit .. the familiar pain is lessened, with attention on the New pain.
Real world examples are,
'Up'grading Any Windoze creation.
Adding Any ""Fix""pack.
Adding Office to any.. marginally stable previous assortment.
(Can't even add .. :-\ufffd when speaking of self-inflicted wounds :(
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Post #47,349
7/29/02 12:18:33 PM
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Re: Norm.
Just a little note to all those who expended their own time and energy in reaching out to our friend.
Thank you - you guys rock.
And Norm - if you ever do this again, I'm gonna get on a plane and come and kick your arse in person :-)
Take care, dude - you've got some good people around you. Let them look after you a little. And then it's time to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start walking tall again.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #47,405
7/29/02 7:28:21 PM
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Hey Norm.. ___Welcome Back!
Now that you've stared into the Abyss.. and apparently didn't much care for the beady-eyes a starin back atcha - after you breathe a few more
{Whew!!s} ?
Maybe you can see that we-all share a certain thing with you (whether chemicals make our brains lie to us awfully / or tell more pleasant lies):
As you've heard often the various pro/cons of the pharm-chem cocktails AND (a few of) the alternative approaches; then tried each new random MD guess - with the results you mention..
It IS Like That!
People 'profess' to know stuff and call selves.. well you know. But few are really paying attention to *you*, often they are reading the PDR (Physicians Desk Ref) for all the "safe" = non-sue-able nostrums + the fixpacks du jour -- when some previous elixir tended to cause patients to sprout wings and stay indoors during daylight hours.
So - it isn't just *you* who must contend with all the rancid, half-assed excuse for intelligent Attention to, what possibly might be done to help your body's immune system get on with repairs. We All have to filter out lots of stuff most reminiscent of a M$ Ad about a new Innovation. Y'know?
I wish I knew some near-infallible method you could use to cut through the BS, get the Attention which you (your insur. co. == same thing) Pay For. The fact is - damn few of us are getting any better quality attention than you have! Really. Computer-grade 'helpdesk' is now the norm in medicine too. HMO is about Profit, cut-to-bone EZ pills and.. it requires as much tenacity and repeated demands to get more, as to get M$ to fix (anything).
I know a few who have so pestered, after doing as much homework as an MD ever did; then insisting upon a certain treatment: by showing the refs. But it is a wearisome and seemingly endless process: by HMO design. Probably you knew this; I'm just confirming FWIW.
This sucks - but try to remember anyway that - it isn't because *you* are stupid, or inattentive or just unLucky! <<< It is because 'the system' is as broken as you feel.
Possibly some one of your relatives (?) can help you prepare for battle, get some expen$ive tests.. and more than one opinion. And above all - some genuine full-attention to your needs. You may not be up to this alone, but you can initiate the plan.
Asking nicely is only an opening. When greeted with calculated dumbth: calm focussed Anger! is an appropriate underscore too, sometimes - as when meeting opposition to whatever it is you want to be tested about, next. (Righteous Anger also feels quite Nice = more endorphins for ya :-)
Best of Luck,
Ashton
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