Post #46,713
7/24/02 11:55:14 AM
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TWiki vs Blogger, etc. for Win2K collaboration?
Hi,
I'm soon going to be setting up an internal web server, probably using Apache 1.3.x, for sharing photos, data files, etc. Although I have no experience with Apache, and have used Xitami with good results, Apache seems more "standard" with more info on how to install other modules, etc.
I'm also interested in setting up an internal collaboration web application. [link|http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/columnists/dan_gillmor/ejournal/|Dan Gillmor's] very fond of weblogs for applications like this.
TWiki seems interesting but I wonder if it's too unfriendly for newbies to set up and use on Win2K. The [link|http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WindowsInstallCookbook|TWiki WindowsInstallCookbook] is quite detailed and seems rather daunting for a newbie like me.
What advantages does TWiki have over [link|http://www.blogger.com|Blogger] or similar software for a newbie?
The features we need/desire are:
1) Easy posting and editing for typical computer users (non-gurus).
2) Editing the posts of others.
3) Easy hyperlinking, adding external files to posts, etc.
4) The ability to totally host the information and software on an internal Win2K system.
5) The ability to restrict access to the software by IP number or similar.
6) Something that's easy to configure by someone who knows BASIC and has a smattering of knowledge of Pascal, Fortran and REXX and has almost no UNIX knowledge.
7) Free or one-time charge for the software.
Is TWiki overkill for our needs? Is there something better/easier?
Thanks for any info!
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #46,725
7/24/02 12:36:03 PM
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My current favorite
[link|http://veryquickwiki.sourceforge.net/links.html|VQWiki]. Cleaner, simpler, interface than TWiki. You can see a sample [link|http://www.croninsolutions.com/veryquickwiki/wiki/jsp/|here]. JSP, but you can drop it in as a .war and go. No built-in security, though, if you need that. I use it with IIS and Tomcat.
---------------------------------
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #46,727
7/24/02 12:39:56 PM
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First thought
TWiki is unbelieveably powerful and flexible, but the learning curve is not that steep at all. Getting started using it is easy, and as you want to do more you easily look up how.
But ... as you suspect it may be overkill. It is really designed for two things: collaborative writing/editing, and massive inter-linking. If you aren't interested in those two features, it may be a lot of unnecessary overhead.
Blogger, and blogs in general, are more about a sequential journal. (Hmm, never noticed before, but it's hard to tell timelines in TWiki.) I've seen some that are fairly simple though. You might want to check with Peter about [link|http://www.movabletype.org/|Movable Type]. He seems to be pretty happy with [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|his installation].
One final consideration is whether you want to be able to migrate to another system at some point. My impression is that TWiki doesn't keep data in a very protable format. It doesn't even use a database, which could be a benefit depending on your needs. The extra overhead of installing it might be offset by the fact you don't need to also install a database.
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #46,986
7/26/02 5:14:57 AM
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More on TWiki
Mostly dittos on what Drew's saying. A few things in TWiki's favor: - Automatic linking of [link|#|WikiWords]. For building references, this rocks.
- Moving and renaming. You want to change a link? Every single page that links to it is updated. This isn't something you can appreciate properly until you've maitained a site through at least one revision cycle.
- Search. It's built in. It's both simple (the search dialog on every TWiki page a [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWeThey] are something I added to the default template -- a 60 second hack -- but you can search from any page) and advanced. The [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebSearch|Search] link gives you a choice of simple or complex (regexps!) search.
- Multiple navigation paths. You can come in via the [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/Main/|front page], [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebSearch|search], check [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebChanges|recent changes], or a [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebTree|tree view]. Flexible, and suits many browsing styles.
- Simple syntax. Straight text, with two carriage returns between paragraphs, is all you need to know to write in a TWiki. If you know HTML, use it, though the simplified markup syntax is IMO easy to use and generally clearer.
- Automation. Searches and other "TWiki Variables" automatically generate content, including lists, directories, tree views, and related data. Data need only be entered once to be referenced elsewhere in the TWiki. You can also extend the underlying scripts as you desire. Plugins make for ready additional extensions. And the InterWikis plugin allows Wikis (and many other web-based systems) to be reference from within a TWiki.
- For the asthetician, there's skins. For some different views of what TWiki can look like: [link|http://vmlinux.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome|vmlinux], [link|http://friends.mannby.com/bin/view/|mann by], [link|http://twiki.selfish.org/twiki/bin/view/Nob/WebHome|selfish] (a personal favorite), and (an exciting discovery) [link|http://eon.law.harvard.edu/twiki/bin/view/Openlaw/|OpenLaw] by Wendy Selzer.
Answering Drew's comment about document storage format -- TWiki uses flatfiles in a directory. So exporting topics is pretty damned easy. Sequential/temporal discussion is somewhat counter to TWiki's goals, but it does have means for seeing topics which are under current discussion, which may be of more interest. There are also methods for aiding generation of temporal content, though these tend to be (IMO) clunky. Then again, temporal discussion is often clunky, particularly when you've got to deal with lots of it at once -- TWiki's worth definitely grows over time. There are simpler Wikis, including some which are merely a single drop-in module/file. But TWiki's toolset is quite nice. --
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
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Post #47,008
7/26/02 8:55:11 AM
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On exporting from TWiki
TWiki uses flatfiles in a directory. So exporting topics is pretty damned easy.
But as you said yourself, a large part of the value of a TWiki is in the interconnectedness. Unless someone has tackled the problem -- and I haven't seen anywhere that they have -- exporting from TWiki in a way that maintains this value is going to be a chore.
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #47,060
7/26/02 1:09:25 PM
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Well...
Once you remove the limb from the host, so to speak, you've negated much of the benefit.
Simple web traversal and archival will preserve links, though they become static.
The InterWikis plugin allows you to reference (statically) a topic in another TWiki, which is another mode of extraction/syndication. Having just added the RDF headlines grabber to [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWeThey], I'm now thinking of some sort of RDF export to allow people to remotely check the most recently updated topics. Hmm....I think that's readily doable with a search, 'coz that's all it is.... ;-) Will mess with that shortly.
So, point being: yes, you can export content readily. However, you're going to lose some of the context, including the live linkage, search, etc. Overall though, not a bad bargain.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
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Post #47,067
7/26/02 1:39:52 PM
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Ooh, groovy
Then we can bug Scott to put up a page over here that references it. ;)
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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