So what? On the PC the mouse is optional.

Post #46,555 by orion 7/23/02 4:32:10 PM Reply	So what? On the PC the mouse is optional. Some packages were sold with the software and the light pen for business applications. yes it did change the UI to the computer. But because Apple didn't think of it first, let's just toss that one out shall we? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #46,569 by tuberculosis 7/23/02 5:01:22 PM Reply	You're off topic Hmmm. I thing you ought to go look up ubiquitous. It means its now everywhere and it changed the way people use computers forever. Light pens are not ubiquitous. You're off topic. Name innovations that appeared first on the PC that now appear on all macs and pcs and unix machines - IOW, something now so fundamental that you'd never consider getting a computer without one. Like CD ROM capable drives (these days most people are going to insist on DVD-ROM at least). Not like light pens. I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Post #46,583 by orion 7/23/02 5:27:22 PM Reply	You're off your rocker how can I compete when you keep on changing the rules to fit your own insane debate? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #46,588 by tuberculosis 7/23/02 5:42:00 PM Reply	?!?!? The thesis hasn't changed. It was and is: Apple does the bulk of the innovating in the computer industry wrt what constitutes a base machine configuration. They've forced into the mainstream mice, GUIs, networking, peer to peer networking (about to get good again with Rendezvous), wireless ethernet, classy cases, hotswappable high bandwidth media (firewire), flat panel displays, multimedia, sound, and a bunch of other stuff thats small but that everybody has since copied. Which is fine. This is all stuff that changed the face of computing - the very definition of what a computer is to a user. Light pens didn't change jack and are not commonly found on the average computer. Do you not understand? You're beginning to resemble bryce on this. Stay on topic. I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Post #46,599 by orion 7/23/02 6:13:29 PM Reply	Stay on topic indeed? Your own words: I give sony bonus points for the vaio ultralight designs - other than that - name one innovation the pc industry provided that directly and favorably impacts the end user experirence that Apple didn't release first. Yet many times you batting things down because the PC didn't invent them first, but some Non-Apple company did. So on that you changed things around to suit your own needs. I gave the IBM Thinkpad Butteryfly keyboard, but you poo-pooed it, and then changed the argument so that instead of the end user experience it was now about the UI. The Lightpen was bundled on some hardware and software packages, and it did impact end user experience, yet because it isn't included on 100% of the systems out there, you poo-pooed it. Again you are changing the terms to suit your own needs. As a result, I refuse to discuss the issue any further with you. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #46,602 by pwhysall 7/23/02 6:21:35 PM Reply	Taking your ball and going home? When did a lightpen change the user experience? Hell, when was the last time you even saw one of these things? But there's a mouse attached to your computer, and you wouldn't consider using it without one. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #46,625 by orion 7/23/02 9:28:31 PM Reply	Not my ball, not my home, not my game. The Lightpen was really used mostly in Point Of Sale, Medical, Industrial and Mobile computing systems. I admit it is not used in 100% of the systems out there, but it is used. In fact, companies such as this one [link\|http://www.inkwellsystems.com/\|[link\|http://www.inkwellsystems.com/\|http://www.inkwellsystems.com/]] seem to be in the business of selling Lightpens and seem to stay in business. If nobody uses Lightpens, then how does this company stay in business since 1983? Click on that company's technical button and read: *Light pens are perfect for applications where desk space is limited, in harsh workplace environments, and any situation where fast accurate input is desired.* Does that, or does that not change the user experience when in some conditions it may be better to use a Lightpen instead of a mouse? Such as in an assembly plant with little or no deskspace to roll around a mouse, or perhaps a point of sale system on a sales counter? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #46,659 by tuberculosis 7/24/02 2:58:34 AM Reply	OK, I'll make this simple for you If it came out on the PC first and Macs have it now and its now included standard where before it used to be an optional add-on, then its a PC innovation that raised the bar. OTOH, if Apple added it to the base product line and then all the PC makers started including it as a standard feature then its an Apple innovation that changed computing for the PC world. Under which scenario does your light pen fit? Oh right, its neither since light pens are not included standard on either PCs or Macs. I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.

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