Ben objects:

Try the beginning toddler, except with a wood stove he just chased a cat behind.

Big arm shoots in front of said toddler along with a very stern, No!

Been there. Done that. Don't think I could have scared the tot more completely with a spanking. Kids that age may not understand the words, but they recognize your tone of voice. And it doesn't take much force to redirect them.

"Been there, done that", too -- and Mom tells me the burns didn't go off my arse for *weeks*! I think your method is good for getting across the concept that "the adults don't want you to do that right now" -- but that's not quite the way I meant it. The problem is that "right now" bit; I'm not saying they are all mean sneaky little bastards, but that really small kids just don't *understand* that you mean you want them to avoid the hot stove, not just now that you're around, but *always*.

To that end, I still think you need to simply create an association in their mind between hot stoves and pain -- and then it's preferable that it be the, after all much milder and "more beneficial", transient pain of a slap than that of an actual burn.

As for serious disrespect, will it improve their respect that you can't come up with any better response than hitting a small child? And if they avoid showing disrespect because you scare them, what happens when they grow up and are no longer frightened of you?

Forget the "hitting a small child" bit -- your argumentation there positively *reeks* of "Protect the CHIIILLLDRRREEEENNNNN!!!"...

For one thing, I'm not necessarily talking about *small* children; not some four-year-old who's just learnt a new word and is trying it out, but a twelve-year-old (or teenager) who knows very well what he's saying, and is doing it (usually in the heat of anger, sure, but still) with the *knowing intent* to hurt. If that's not to be tolerated from another adult (and trust me, some things I'd slap *you* in the face if you said them to mine), then why should it be from him (or her)? On the contrary, you should be able to expect *more* respect from your kids than from some random stranger, shouldn't you?

Also, I'm not advocating any protracted spanking "session" -- just a short, sharp slap, as being the most appropriate *punctuation* to some utterances. (Punctuation is what *ends* an utterance... ;^) Some kinds of speech *do* sting enough that they can only be repaid with another kind of sting; again, as a reminder that "you just *don't do* that". Here, your "big arm and stern voice" just don't work any more -- well, for you and me, maybe. But not for some tiny woman who weighs less, and is shorter than, her fourteen-year-old son. But the shock value -- the "wake-up call effect", much more than any real pain per se -- of a slap may bring the sprog back to his senses.

Would *you* respect your wife any less if she slapped *you* if you called her something really nasty -- or would you perhaps actually respect her less if she *didn't*? Personally, I'm leaning toward the latter; and if it's good enough for me, why shouldn't it be for a kid? (For a pre-teen or teen, that is, who knows what he's saying. Again, the exception to this exception is that pre-schooler who's trying out a new word; for him, the stern look and "you do *not* use that word" works, even if you are a tiny Mom.)

PS You are engaged? Congrats. When is the wedding?

Heh -- I announced that at the watercooler back in February... But thanks for noticing, anyway! ;^)

No date set in stone yet, but it'll be sometime next year or, more probably, in 2004. (I am *not* going to leave it totally open-ended, turning into never-never, like last time...)