Post #44,550
7/5/02 1:00:52 PM
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IGM request
I've been looking for ye olde Debian v. foo debate that occured, IIRC at EZBoard, largely between myself and Rob Nelson, though others chimed in.
I went looing through EZBoard's Linux topic yesterday, all 20-odd pages of topics. No dice. Unless it was somewhere else -- another topic or board perhaps? I also recall that there was an issue with EZB dropping old posts, and have a sinking suspicion that that's what's going on here.
Anyone recall that discussion or (pleeze!) have a local archive? Trying to munge some of it into [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome|TWikIWETHEY]'s [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IweArea51|Area51] tree. Hence the IWETHEY Group Mind request.
TIA.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
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Post #44,551
7/5/02 1:11:42 PM
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Ezboard and Yahoo
both of them made a policy to drop old posts to save on storage. So chances are if it was old enough, like say 1999 or 1998, it may have been dropped.
I am free now, to choose my own destiny.
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Post #44,606
7/6/02 9:35:09 AM
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Hmm.
[link|http://pub13.ezboard.com/fiwetheylinux.showMessage?topicID=649.topic&index=8|This] one?
Imric's Tips for Living- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Post #44,607
7/6/02 9:39:06 AM
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Re: Hmm.
Blimey. I've just done a similar exercise to Karsten, and I went straight past this.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #44,608
7/6/02 9:47:12 AM
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*chuckle*
I just searched using the [link|http://www.dogpile.com|dogpile] meta-search... I don't know if this is the discussion Karsten wanted, though...
Imric's Tips for Living- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Post #44,639
7/6/02 4:58:53 PM
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Thanks! ...how did I miss that?
That's the one.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
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Post #44,609
7/6/02 9:47:29 AM
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wget in progress
I'll pop a tarball on my webserver when done.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #44,611
7/6/02 10:31:34 AM
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Hmm.
Well, that was less than spectacularly successful.
My wget-fu is obviously weak.
Karsten, feel free to ssh in and clobber my connection if you think you can do better than "wget -k -r -l=1 <url>"
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #44,656
7/6/02 9:13:02 PM
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How about....
...[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyDebianRocks|WhyDebianRocks]. I snarfed'n'barfed most of the content there.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
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Post #44,659
7/6/02 10:07:23 PM
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Re: How about....
The following link on the referenced page has gone to the great bit-bucket in the sky:
[link|http://debian-br.sourceforge.net/porque_debian/debian_vs_redhat.html|A Red Hat user's introduction to Debian. Basic testimonial.]
Alex
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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Post #44,665
7/7/02 12:25:48 AM
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Google cache
[link|http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:JtvG9WBnAbAC:debian-br.sourceforge.net/txt/debian_vs_redhat.html+red+hat+user%27s+introduction+to+debian&hl=en&ie=UTF-8|Here].
This appears to be a copy of another page that Peter turned up in his links. Ahh...well, just off of them. [link|http://debian-br.sourceforge.net/txt/debian_vs_redhat.html|here].
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
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Post #44,670
7/7/02 8:56:46 AM
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Thanks!
Alex
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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Post #44,705
7/8/02 12:21:22 AM
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Already gotten.
Semi-parsed, but the actual getting was killing my monthly ISP bill. I used a combination of shell scripts and lynx -source. I'd split threads into individual messages and managed to reconstruct threading information, but that's a forum I hadn't "cleaned" yet.
Wade.
"Ah. One of the difficult questions."
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Post #44,615
7/6/02 11:09:02 AM
7/6/02 1:13:34 PM
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Some resources
Found [link|http://pub13.ezboard.com/fiwetheylinux.showMessage?topicID=649.topic&index=39|this]. I've been through and updated the Deja searches to reflect the fact that Google now owns Deja. Here's a Galeon session file with all the resources:
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<session>
<window x="0" y="25" width="1016" height="661">
<embed title="zIWETHEY Forum: Linux" url="[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/forum/show?forumid=25"/|http://z.iwethey.or...forumid=25"/]>
<embed title="Read me in THEIR word!!! - www.ezboard.com" url="[link|http://pub13.ezboard.com/fiwetheylinux.showMessage?topicID=649.topic|http://pub13.ezboar...ID=649.topic]&index=39"/>
<embed title="Google Search:" url="[link|http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq|http://groups.googl...roups?oi=djq]&selm=an_627781713"/>
<embed title="Google Search: # Re: Distro change: to debian or SuSE?." url="[link|http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%23+Re:+Distro+change:+to+debian+or+SuSE%3F|http://groups.googl...n+or+SuSE%3F].&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=IWGp5.14935%24g53.280302%40news5.giganews.com&rnum=1"/>
<embed title="Google Search:" url="[link|http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq|http://groups.googl...roups?oi=djq]&selm=an_635576126"/>
<embed title="Re: current Redhat user evaluates Debian" url="[link|http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2000/debian-user-200007/msg02768.html"/|http://lists.debian...02768.html"/]>
<embed title="Package Management Tools" url="[link|http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxpkgs.html"/|http://cbbrowne.com...xpkgs.html"/]>
<embed title="404 Not Found" url="[link|http://www.antipope.org/charlie/nonfiction/linux/shopper/145-distros.html"/|http://www.antipope...stros.html"/]>
<embed title="[PLUG] "Distro" advocates" url="[link|http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/pubarchive/plug/2000-May/005898.html"/|http://lists.philly...05898.html"/]>
<embed title="SEUL-Leaders: debian (vs redhat)" url="[link|http://archives.seul.org/seul/leaders/Aug-1997/msg00042.html"/|http://archives.seu...00042.html"/]>
<embed title="Debian Documents" url="[link|http://www.infodrom.org/Debian/doc/"/|http://www.infodrom.org/Debian/doc/"/]>
<embed title="Articles:Debian 2.1 Release Party" url="[link|http://debian-br.sourceforge.net/txt/rh_debian_slashdot.html"/|http://debian-br.so...shdot.html"/]>
<embed title="Untitled" url="[link|http://debian-br.sourceforge.net/txt/debian_vs_redhat2.txt"/|http://debian-br.so...edhat2.txt"/]>
<embed title="Untitled" url="[link|http://debian-br.sourceforge.net/txt/debian_vs_redhat.txt"/|http://debian-br.so...redhat.txt"/]>
<embed title="A Red Hat user's introduction to Debian" url="[link|http://debian-br.sourceforge.net/txt/debian_vs_redhat.html"/|http://debian-br.so...edhat.html"/]>
<embed title="Why I chose Debian GNU/Linux" url="[link|http://snowcrash.tdyc.com/articles/imoore2.html"/|http://snowcrash.td...oore2.html"/]>
<embed title="Google Search: Re: rpm or debian packaging" url="[link|http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Re:+rpm+or+debian+packaging|http://groups.googl...an+packaging]&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=6dc.39f34313.7f665%40scgf&rnum=1"/>
</window>
</session>
Copy that into a file, and bung it in ~/.galeon/sessions, then pick it off the list with File->Recent Sessions. Reading through that stuff, I can't quite get my head round why any reasonable individual with two brain cells to rub together would choose NOT to run Debian.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
Edited by pwhysall
July 6, 2002, 01:12:44 PM EDT
Edited by pwhysall
July 6, 2002, 01:13:34 PM EDT
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Post #44,621
7/6/02 11:41:41 AM
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A quiet moment
I got sidetracked, and started poking around in the rest of the old EzBoard forums.
Found some posts by Ben Kosse, and realised I hadn't thought about him for far too long.
:<
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #44,655
7/6/02 9:09:58 PM
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Yes
I found a number of posts from BK. The two questions I was asking myself were "what?" and "why"? His Kaiser Aluminum posts showed a bit of the angry but principled youth. Volatile combination, that.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
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Post #44,663
7/6/02 11:48:33 PM
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that it is :-(
Dammit.
-----
Steve
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Post #44,629
7/6/02 12:43:59 PM
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"would choose NOT to run Debian"
A couple of days ago, I tried installing Debian on a machine I put put together from mostly spare parts and failed. I could not make X work because I have a video card that apparently is not supported. It did not recognize the NEC monitor. Also every few seconds it was claiming my timer/clock failed and was being reset. So I gave up and installed the official Red Hat 7.3 "Evaluation" 2-CDs w/o a hitch. All the hardware was recognized.
The video card, a Diamond Stealth 2000 3D with 2MB RAM, did not have a long product life and had problems working with earlier version of Red Hat as well, Indeed, the reason it was a "spare" was because I bought a VooDoo 3 card I knew was supported.
The CD drive, actually my wife's old CD burner which no longer burns CDs, I think reads OK and the Debian distribution (ver 2.2 rev 6) was on CDs burned by one of the local LUG members. So, there is chance the CDs were not reliably read.
Anyway, there are reasons not everyone runs Debian.
Alex
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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Post #44,630
7/6/02 1:04:05 PM
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Re: "would choose NOT to run Debian"
It'll come back to bite ye.
It's widely known and accepted that if Debian has a weak area, it's installation.
Once you get the thing on (and it's really not all that bad), Debian basically whips Red Hat in every area.
Easier to use. Easier to install software. More software. Better configuration. You can upgrade without nightmares.
The kicker: [link|http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/|Debian Policy]. As far as I'm aware, no such document exists for any other Linux distribution. Policy is the special sauce that means Debian is better. Not just subjectively better, but objectively better - there's a metric for measuring the "goodness" of a package, and that's to what extent it complies with policy.
Red Hat might have the slick installer, but that's no basis to choose a distribution. You're going to spend a day or so with the install. You're going to spend at least months and possibly years with the consequences of that.
Yes, there are reasons not everyone runs Debian. They're almost invariably wrong :)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #44,704
7/8/02 12:14:59 AM
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Might I remind you: something called "First Impressions".
e.g. Debian's. Truly Wierd installation is also one reason I didn't persist with Debian. What's that you say? Keeps out the riff-raff? I think it's keeping out more than you might think...
Wade.
"Ah. One of the difficult questions."
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Post #44,711
7/8/02 12:56:44 AM
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Your loss
Points: - Ultimately, your problem, not mine.
- We'll appreciate your holding your criticisms to the install, then.
- It Really, Truly, Gets Much Better ™.
- Adventure puts hair on your chest.
- Peter installs Debian, starts shilling for it. The woman he loves accepts his proposal for marriage. Coincidence? I think not.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
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Post #44,717
7/8/02 1:27:31 AM
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Counter.
1. Primarily, but IMHO Debian is not doing itself any favours by lagging behind with the Installation Routine.
2. I largely do.
3. I'll have to believe you and Peter, though my experiences after two installs were not stellar. (I suspect this may be more telling than mere failed installs, but they are issues we've been over before.)
4. uh...
5. ... now we're over on another plane. :-)
Wade.
"Ah. One of the difficult questions."
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Post #44,638
7/6/02 4:00:39 PM
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Re: "would choose NOT to run Debian"
I don't know what you did in your message, but it's horked up everything from that one to the end.
Famous last RPG quotes: "I'll just shoot this fireball down the dungeon passageway..."
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Post #44,653
7/6/02 8:23:19 PM
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Moi?
Alex
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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Post #44,733
7/8/02 9:23:15 AM
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Nope, Peter's "embed" links post
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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