Post #444,989
11/4/24 4:06:28 AM
11/4/24 4:06:28 AM
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OK, may be, but that's still not the main point.
The point is, who's the "they" in "They thought it the balloons were enemy missiles[1]"? That just CANNOT be "people in general", because how the fuck would the general populace have any theory either way about what they were, when they never saw them in the first place? Only an infinitesimal proportion, or possibly nobody whatsoever, of the population would have happened to actually see them with the naked eye at all.
So the "they" whose taking the balloons for something else the lyrics reference must obviously be the ones whose mistaking them for something actually mattered: Anyone between the radar screen and the launch button, up and down the chain of command.
That's why I still can't quite get my head around your original idea of the lyrics blaming the audience. Just... No, of course not, how the fuck could they and why the fuck would they? (Rhetorical question.)
So no, not all that huge a difference for the overall point of the song, IMO.
___
[1]: Or UFOs from space; whatever. (Not that it makes any sense to start a nuclear war if you thought they were UFOs.) --
Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking EverythingMail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
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Post #444,992
11/4/24 9:06:32 AM
11/4/24 9:06:32 AM
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Nit, just because I'm feeling salty today
... if you thought they were UFOs. If you thought they were UFOs, they were UFOs.
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Post #445,002
11/5/24 7:46:54 AM
11/5/24 7:46:54 AM
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True. A nit worthy of... Idunno; me?
So I guess I should have included the operative words: "thought they were UFOs from space" -- "UFOs" in the sense of "flying saucers with space aliens".
That sure makes it illogical to start a war among us Earthlings over it. --
Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking EverythingMail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
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Post #444,994
11/4/24 2:29:14 PM
11/4/24 4:00:51 PM
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This is like arguing with my wife
"They" is me and you and anyone else who has ever listened to the song in their own preferred native language.
This is not a blame issue. This is an interpretation of lyrics issue and who they are targeted towards.
This is not about violins on television. Can I use that idiom with you? This is not an insult, just wondering if I can use that shorthand. It seems our discussions devolve into occasional misunderstandings and I think that's a very good shorthand for what happens.
And really, shouting (Full-Blown Caps) combined with insults combined with sprinkling of curses (I know it's salt and pepper to you and I try not to react, but it's simply not punctuation in my brain, it's emphasis combined with attack), is it all really required? Is the effect desired? Sigh.
I get to choose the main point of this discussion because I was asking questions about interpretation of lyrics. And the lyrics are based on the native language combined with changing the actual meaning occasionally. Changing words and multiple lines. So I wanted to know about how the audiences interpreted that and felt about that. Which I couldn't do without a native speaker.
I get to choose who "they" are because I posted and asked the questions about "them". I get to choose that. No matter how you choose to interpret, it doesn't matter.
No matter how many other comments were posted by other people and what they were talking about. That's got nothing to do with what I posted.
The people listening to the song in the distance on the radio. The different groups of people each time they changed the words. The people being manipulated by the music and the words. The people who know it's a song.
Not the imaginary people firing missiles. Or their imaginary populations. Not violins on television.
Are we done now?
Edited by crazy
Nov. 4, 2024, 02:31:32 PM EST
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Nov. 4, 2024, 02:35:19 PM EST
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Nov. 4, 2024, 03:31:19 PM EST
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Nov. 4, 2024, 03:39:18 PM EST
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Nov. 4, 2024, 03:50:50 PM EST
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Nov. 4, 2024, 04:00:51 PM EST
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Post #445,003
11/5/24 8:06:09 AM
11/5/24 8:06:09 AM
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Yoour poor, poor wife...
...if you regularly argue as inefectually, annoyingly, and stupidly with her. This is an interpretation of lyrics issue and who they are targeted towards. Yup. And the interpretation is obviously that they're targeted towards the military-industrial or military-political complex, not (the audience as representatives of) the general public. So obvious that nobody ever -- except you -- has thought anything else. But it doesn't help how often, how thoroughly, or how simply you explain stuff to someone who just blank resuses to understand. Does your paycheck somehow depend on you not understanding this, or something? This is not about violins on television. Can I use that idiom with you? This is not an insult, just wondering if I can use that shorthand. It seems our discussions devolve into occasional misunderstandings and I think that's a very good shorthand for what happens. Sure, you can use it, but I don't get it. And really, shouting (Full-Blown Caps) combined with insults combined with sprinkling of curses (I know it's salt and pepper to you and I try not to react, but it's simply not punctuation in my brain, it's emphasis combined with attack), is it all really required? Is the effect desired? Sigh. Speaking of violins: Cue the world's smallest one. Can I use that idiom with you? Feels fitting for your whining about "attack", after some of your posts over the years. Including at least two this year that I've been letting slide so far. I get to choose the main point of this discussion because I was asking questions about interpretation of lyrics.
[...]
I get to choose who "they" are because I posted and asked the questions about "them". I get to choose that.
[...]
The people listening to the song in the distance on the radio. The different groups of people each time they changed the words. The people being manipulated by the music and the words. Sure. Just let people know when you start talking about different "they"s in the future, because that wasn't what this started out with: as you said, you started out with asking about the lyrics, so I was explaining how the "they" in the lyrics are NOT (Oh boo-hoo, capitals!) the people listening to the song in the distance on the radio. Are we done now? Maybe if you could ever bring yourself to STFU...? --
Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking EverythingMail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
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Post #445,005
11/5/24 9:25:57 AM
11/5/24 9:45:22 AM
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Here's another idiom you're learning
Your impression of Emily Litella is not worth two points of my blood pressure. Especially when you don't have even her level of self-awareness. https://youtu.be/fZLeaSWY37I?si=yF-aNA265F2X6S68And on reread, thanks, I learned exactly what I was looking for. You've been storing up some grievances. And you've been in hovering attack mode. I typically try to never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but you just put yourself on the malice side of this one.
Edited by crazy
Nov. 5, 2024, 09:45:22 AM EST
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Post #445,009
11/5/24 11:15:25 AM
11/5/24 11:15:25 AM
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Bullshit on both.
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