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New Hey Gryg, what would you do if they took cooking gas away?
https://heatmap.news/economy/california-gas-electrification-law

I think it's a great idea. In the event of the tremendous cost of digging the infrastructure versus paying for the electric appliances. I would hope it includes circuit panel and wiring upgrades where necessary, but I don't see that.

On the other hand, cooking with electric sucks. I would jump back to gas if I could.

Okay, not entirely. I've got an inductive hot plate with perfect temperature control so I love that thing. But I want to be able to make fried rice and that means a circular cooking surface that is uneven which does not happen with the inductive cooker.

My neighbors actually have outdoor tanks filled with propane. They use that for heating and cooking but I'm not going to do that. I might consider simply a range top propane grill for wok work.
New Big propane tank, of course.
But I think the new law applies mainly to new construction, at least for now.
New Pretty sure it includes maintenance
Gas line goes to a group of people. Gas line starts to leak. Somewhere along that line is the leak, possibly multiples. Time start digging. Digging costs huge amounts of money. Digging includes road work.

If a group of people at the end of a gas line can have all their gas related appliances replaced with electric appliances for less than the cost of digging then the gas company can offer that deal. If a certain percentage of them votes to take the electric deal, then the rest of the people HAVE to. The gas will simply be shut off.

At least that's how I read it.
New So a block-sized co-op could run a shared central gas tank?
Put the tank in the middle, dig gas lines to each household crossing only their residential lots, not streets, and hey presto, Robert is the brother of one of your parents.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New Sounds like a great idea
Technically, I would love to see that type of stuff happening. Block off the leaky pipe on entrance to the neighborhood and slap a new connection to a local big tank. Wherever they put it on, wherever it's best to put that big dangerous tank. Refill it from a full tanker once whatever time frame is required.

Now I'm trying to figure out where in my neighborhood could find a spot to put it in. Not that would ever happen here. I don't have a gas infrastructure here. I chose to move here knowing that so that's my responsibility if I want that. That will never happen here. But just thought process. If we had gas and it went away where would we put the tank and who would be responsible for it.

That's a big explody thing. We're a bunch of old people who have a low tolerance for s*** blowing up in the neighborhood. We run about 60/40 blue/red. Some loudly on both sides. A co-op sounds great on paper but there will be no cooperation here.

We actually all own an airport together. We don't agree on anything except for mow the damn grass. We got pilots and non-pilots. Those are two different set of people within a group of people that are already arguing due to political splits right now.

Back to the big explody thing. No place to put it. Everyone will have that attitude. Nimby. Not in my backyard. Cornerstone of our American attitude combined with the hardcore. I'm on the West Coast damn it, you don't tell me what to do in my backyard but your backyard better not have a big explody thing in it.

Okay, possible in communities that actually cooperate and have a bit of room. Some distance they can dig a pipe from. Put the big explody thing a few thousand yards out.

If that includes a tight space with a community next door, you're screwed. If that includes space owned by the federal government surrounding you, you're screwed.

Most of the people here would be screwed.
New One more thought that drove that
My neighbor's tank is about 50 ft from the side of my house where I can see it and I am sure if it explodes it will blow my house over.

We've had about a dozen propane explosions in this area in the last 3 years. A few people died across them. Most of them were little tanks. Plain stupidity in their use. But there were a couple of the professionally installed big ones that took out the houses next door.

Any tank capable of supplying more than one house would have to be a lot bigger than the one I see next door to me. Start multiplying how big that tank would have to be for whatever houses you want and you can be sure that the surrounding houses that aren't part of it will block it hard.

At that point I assume there would have to be serious burying and the cost would be skyrocketing so it wouldn't matter. Another block. You can see my depression on this because I'd like a gas here. Oh well.
New Yeah, moving away from ancient hydrocarbons has lots of plusses.
https://www.nationthailand.com/news/general/40041996

Initial study shows the bus that burst into flames and killed 23 was illegally modified and fitted with several CNG canisters

Investigation teams along with officials from relevant agencies were seen collecting evidence at the site of the devastating school bus fire on Wednesday.

Meanwhile, people have been placing flowers, milk and snacks as offerings at the accident site in memory of the 20 primary students and three teachers killed in the tragedy.

At about 12.20pm on Tuesday, a bus carrying students and teachers from Wat Khao Phraya Sangkaram School in Uthai Thai was engulfed in fire after one of its front tyres blew out. The accident took place on Vibhavadi Road in Pathum Thani.

At 9am on Wednesday, both the burned-down bus and a Mercedes sedan that had been hit were removed from the site for further inspection.

Initial investigation shows that the bus was equipped with several CNG gas tanks and had been illegally modified. The bus will also be examined by officials from the Department of Energy, the Department of Land Transport and several other agencies.

[...]


:-(

I've been looking at induction and it seems to be the way to go. We're finally getting close to replacing our original 1963 drop-in oven. Push buttons! It's modern!!1 Shortly after we moved in I was thinking we'd do a nice gas range upgrade - I'm very glad we didn't...

Cheers,
Scott.
New We're living in the past
In a hundred years young people will be shocked to learn their grandparents lived in houses that had gas burning stoves.
--

Drew
New No, it'll be retro, and totally IN.
Only rich people will have it.
New Our induction cooktop is the best thing we've done in a while
Superb temperature control, boils a dutch oven of water in a few minutes. Love it.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Do you have a full cooktop?
If so, who makes it.

I have two of these:

Breville|PolyScience the Control Freak Temperature Controlled Commercial Induction Cooking System https://a.co/d/6cTbMXf

I don't run them at the same time. I can. I put in three extra high wattage lines in my kitchen to plug anything I want because I run all kinds of stuff at the same time.

My electrician loves me. No fishing cables. I had him fill out a circuit panel and wrap the lines in conduits around the house on the outside. Slap them into the kitchen and done. No drilling through floors at all and three points in the wall.

But I have two of these because I want one in backup for when the first one fails. I won't be able to fix it and it is way too expensive to think about buying again.

I bought it at $1,100. They now charge $1,500. It's turned out to be an investment.

I had multiple induction hot plates before these. I love them technically but they did not fulfill their promise of power or control or fragileness. Great idea, lousy implementation. And then I got this thing and was blown away.

Is there anything else with this level of control and temperature monitoring? I don't care about the probe portion. Just keep the pan at a constant temperature and make me happy that way. Everything else is BS.

Hopefully cheaper if it's a plug-in, other than that point me to the cooktop. A couple burners of regular electric infrared whatever and a couple burners of induction. With temperature control.

Mine is cracked and broken and we don't use it. I've taped the knobs down so it's not dangerous because we still use the oven portion but not for long. Help me find the replacement.

If it includes full oven great. If not, still great.
New Yes, full cooktop. It's a Frigidaire GCCI3067AB
Had to order this exact model due to the size of the existing cut-out and counter. Well, or spend 3X as much for the Kitchenaid that would also fit.

I assume they make a full oven version as well.

It has a feature that will keep the temperature at a particular setting, but it's by number (1-9) not degrees. There's also a Powar setting that will make the pan buzz and heat stuff up tout de suite.

There are a few things we don't like so much: the controls are fiddly for my wife because her skin doesn't conduct the same way that of other people does, it will beep at you if you set anything on the controls (which are integral to the top) even if it's off, and occasionally it turns off for "no reason".¹

Other than that it's been pretty good to us.

¹ I think she's accidentally brushing the switch or something as it doesn't happen to me.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Induction stoves don't work at all . . .
. . for traditional woks or kadhais. Flat bottom woks are available and may work OK, but not kadhais. The Indian kadhai has the very best geometry for deep frying of any device in the world - way less splattering all over the stove. I use mine a lot.

Of course you can probably use a sheet of steel below traditional clay bean pots, Corning ware, ceramics, borosilicate glass stovetop pots, coffee carafes, etc. probably with seriously reduced efficiency.

Tri-ply pots and pans will work because they have corrosion resistant 300 series stainless on the inside, and less corrosion resistant but magnetic stainless (like 400 series) on the outside, but anything all 300 series won't work. Nor will aluminum.
New Yep, they won't be for everyone.
We don't do any deep frying or use a wok though.

FWIW I found some induction kadhais online, obviously no idea how well they work.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New That stuff on the Internet is worthless.
First of all, they're all 10 inches or smaller, useless for any but apartment / condo dwellers who don't do serious cooking.

Second, some are non-stick. No sane person does deep fry in a non-stick pan.

Third, some are pretty stainless steel. Deep fry in one of those and you'll have to scrub it inside and out with oven cleaner - it'll look terrible. Iron and steel are supposed to develop a black varnish "seasoning", stainless is not.

My kadhai is a mere 14 inches, about the smallest size for general use. India Sweets and Spices down in Glendale sells them them up to about 36 inches. Mine is stamped out of a heavy sheet of steel, and I do mean heavy, it weighs 9 pounds.

A kadhai looks kind of like a wok, but is not at all the same. The radius is different and the sides are higher and more vertical. It is far better than a wok for deep fry, very much done in India, and for which I use it fairly often.

On the other hand, a kadhai is not so good for East / Southeast Asian stir-fry. Recipes from that region often ask to push ingredients up the sides while adding others in the middle. The sides of a kadhai are too steep for that.

Now I do use (but never for deep fry) a 13 inch tri-ply stainless wok, which would absolutely horrify any aficionado of Cantonese stir-fry - it's way to slow to respond to changes in temperature. That's OK, you can't really do Cantonese on a home stove anyway - though J Kenji Lopez-Alt has developed a way to fake it using a map-gas blow torch.

13 inches is a little cramped, but suits me most of the time, as I'm usually doing stir-fry for three or fewer people.

For more demanding work I have a 14 inch carbon steel wok by Atlas Metal Spinning of San Francisco - the best ever made. Unfortunately they no longer make them.

At the same time I bought that wok, 55 years ago, I bought the best Chinese cleaver knife ever made, by Dexter Russel of Massachusetts. I've used it often since then. It is still made, and a recent book by a top expert in Chinese cooking says that just about every skilled Chinese chef in the US uses that knife. They now also make a stainless steel version (at a lower price), but that's strictly for amateurs.

I seldom use this knife for Chinese recipes, but consider it, and a soft faced mallet, to be one of my kitchen essentials - see Chinese Cleaver Knife & Mallet.

And speaking of stuff in production for an unusual time, in the late sixties I purchased a Fluke 73 multimeter. It was just replaced by a new model about 2 years ago. That has to be some sort of record for electronic equipment. A support person once asked me on the phone if my multimeter was sensitive enough for what he wanted me to do. I said, "I don't know, it's a Fluke". His response was "Bastard!" - he apparently knew what a Fluke multimeter cost.

But for something really long lasting - I think it was in the Balkans, many years ago the grave of a lady from Paleolithic hunter-gatherer times, thought to have been a shaman, was partially excavated. It was found to have an amazing amount of grave goods, from an era when grave goods were rare. Recently, excavation was completed - and they found there was a second layer of offerings made at her grave site, 700 YEARS after her death. Now that is fame.
New Is it though?
We tend to keep our old gods and heroes until there are new ones to replace them. Today that can be overnight. Back then it could take a generation until people at the edges of your migration range even heard of The Great Lady.

Maybe that second round of offerings was just how long it took for word of her exploits to reach the other end of the savanna and back.

PS about the Fluke. My wife used one at work back when we were dating. I'll have to tell her she was using The Good Stuff.[tm]
--

Drew
New Oh yeah!
The real pros use those yellow flukes. Not me. I had a random signal generator though. That would let me trace a line. But those domain echo devices that could tell you how far away something was. I wanted one of those.

I have loved my particular inductive burner for a couple of years, but it took until a few months back that I replaced all my cook gear. I found a particular non-stick that I deemed worthwhile to make an effort to keep non-stick. It's heavy enough by default to press down on the inductive surface. That's important. Most pans off balance by the handle and raise part of the pan slightly which screws up the inductive heat connection.

So at this point I've rotated all the pots and pans to only have handy the guaranteed workable ones. And now I have bought many non-stick spatulas. And other cookware. But the bottom line is I want to keep everything metal away from me. Don't let me grab anything by accident. And then destroy the non-stick surface.
New Greenpan makes excellent nonstick
Refreshable with a melamine sponge too.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New It was like magic
This was 25 years ago she used the Fluke, and she could tap cables in the server room and tell you how far it was to where it terminated at the other end of the building. The stuff she described being able to do amazed me.
--

Drew
New Not likely
The grave had no monument, and only her people would know where it was and what it was. Probably they were having some problems and hoped she could help them.

And that 700 years to get across the savanna? No way.

Now, with DNA testing, isotope testing, and many other newfangled testing methods, archaeologists have found that travel and trade in prehistoric times was far faster, and over far greater distances, than people had imagined.

There's also the matter of women. It is normal for the women found in a grave site to have come from quite a distance. It is quite apparent that young women were strongly discouraged from marrying within their village or tribal unit. Yeah, maybe they knew something about genetics.

This would be why ceremonial sites were so important in hunter gatherer times, and later fairs in village times. They were not just for religion, trade, and alliances, but also for matchmaking. This reason for fairs has survived in some folk songs to this day.

Due to proximity, some archaeologists think agriculture may have begun around these ceremonial sites to assure adequate beer and/or wine for events. Admittedly, the oldest formal winery we have discovered (it's in Armenia, near a ceremonial and funerary site) is only about 6000 years old, but its scale and arrangement makes it obvious this was not something new at the time.
New So we haven't sped up as much as I thought
Now I'm wondering, do we cycle through trends and fads as quickly as we do because of our technology, or have we built technology to support our desire to cycle through trends and fads?
--

Drew
New Reddit thread. Indian source.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IndianFood/comments/1bc6quv/induction_kadai/

Haven't clicked the links myself.

https://ramsonind.com/product/induction-kadai-stainless-steel/ is some place in India that has them in a huge variety of sizes. Dunno how easy it would be to buy them and ship them to the USA.

HTH a little!

Cheers,
Scott.
New Love my induction hob
Absolutely transformational. So fast. So precise. So easy to clean.
     Hey Gryg, what would you do if they took cooking gas away? - (crazy) - (22)
         Big propane tank, of course. - (Andrew Grygus) - (5)
             Pretty sure it includes maintenance - (crazy) - (4)
                 So a block-sized co-op could run a shared central gas tank? - (CRConrad) - (3)
                     Sounds like a great idea - (crazy) - (2)
                         One more thought that drove that - (crazy) - (1)
                             Yeah, moving away from ancient hydrocarbons has lots of plusses. - (Another Scott)
         We're living in the past - (drook) - (1)
             No, it'll be retro, and totally IN. - (Andrew Grygus)
         Our induction cooktop is the best thing we've done in a while - (malraux) - (13)
             Do you have a full cooktop? - (crazy) - (1)
                 Yes, full cooktop. It's a Frigidaire GCCI3067AB - (malraux)
             Induction stoves don't work at all . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (9)
                 Yep, they won't be for everyone. - (malraux) - (7)
                     That stuff on the Internet is worthless. - (Andrew Grygus) - (6)
                         Is it though? - (drook) - (5)
                             Oh yeah! - (crazy) - (2)
                                 Greenpan makes excellent nonstick - (malraux)
                                 It was like magic - (drook)
                             Not likely - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                 So we haven't sped up as much as I thought - (drook)
                 Reddit thread. Indian source. - (Another Scott)
             Love my induction hob - (pwhysall)

My toddler just put a Cheeto in my belly button. How is your day going?
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