Transgen athletes, here we go again

Post #444,526 by crazy 7/26/24 12:38:14 PM 7/26/24 12:38:14 PM Reply	Transgen athletes, here we go again https://reduxx.info/teams-with-trans-identified-male-cyclists-win-top-three-spots-at-womens-bike-race-in-washington/ This is insane. Compete as a man and lose, compete as a woman and win. I feel like an asshole for aligning with a hard right talking point but they are right on this one. I doubt there is one biological female child who's growing up and looking at these people as role models. They're looking up and seeing they don't stand a chance in the field. They will lose and they should not bother trying. What's the point of sports? To instill both cooperation and competition. To push yourself beyond what you can do everyday. To strive to win. I admire people like that but I'm not like that. Allowing biological born males who have gone through puberty to compete with females is insane. Give them their own category. Male, female and other. Sorry, they don't fit in the current one and they screw everybody who does.
Post #444,553 by CRConrad 7/29/24 2:27:43 AM 7/29/24 2:27:43 AM Reply	Me too (heh): I think I'm quite "progressive" enough, but this is why... ...women have a category of their own in sports in the first place: Anyone who's grown up in a female body can't compete on sheer physiology with anyone who's grown up in a male body. And I don't much believe in "hormone therapy" or "androgen blockers" either: Sure, that might block the male-type muscle growth now -- but these people have a lifetime of male muscle mass building behind them. I just don't think them competing with biologically base-females can ever be fair. -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #444,557 by drook 7/29/24 9:20:16 AM 7/29/24 9:20:16 AM Reply	If that's the standard ... I grew up in this body. There no way I was ever going to be competitive at most sports at the Olympic level. (Archery I could, probably.) I don't think there's a simple answer to this. I don't think it's right to exclude all trans athletes from sports, but it's also not right for someone living as a man to declare themselves a woman the day of an event to prove a point, as several have done now. -- Drew
Post #444,562 by Andrew Grygus 7/29/24 6:40:15 PM 7/29/24 6:40:15 PM Reply	Sorry to be politically incorect . . . . . but my position is that women's sports should be open only to cis women. Does that disadvantage trans women? Yes, but a vast number of people are unable to participate in competitive sports due to physical limitations. Actually most people are. And are not cis women being unfairly disadvantaged by trans women in these sports? Of course trans men are disadvantaged at men's sports, but who is complaining about that? I have no problem whatever with people being trans (in either direction), but there should be limitations in physical sports. Of course, trans women could be allowed to compete and their scores disregarded, but of course, they would complain of unfair discrimination, while their intent is to have an unfair advantage.
Post #444,556 by static 7/29/24 4:58:49 AM 7/29/24 4:58:49 AM Reply	I disliked the implicit transphobia in that article. I did notice it talked about "men identifying as women" but only mentions hormone replacement right at the end. Hormone therapy changes muscle/fat distribution in the body. For MTF transition, this means losing muscle mass, which includes loss of muscle strength. This is fairly well documented. For this reason, trans gender woman athletes who have been on HRT for at least a year do not have a lot of advantage against cis gender athletes.
Post #444,559 by crazy 7/29/24 5:03:31 PM 7/29/24 5:03:31 PM Reply	Doesn't matter Pretty much anything you read on this subject will be biased until you get to the sciency studies that everybody cherry picks from. https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/a-look-at-the-numbers-and-times-no-denying-the-advantages-of-lia-thomas/ It takes a tiny difference to go from run-of-the-mill to world dominating. This guy was nothing as a male swimmer. He became, sorry, she became a superstar when competing against biological women. As of 2021 they were pretty sure that the year difference was not enough. https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trans-women-retain-athletic-edge-after-year-hormone-therapy-study-n1252764 And these guys, who are far more experienced in the subject than either of us are sure that advantage is a lot longer. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331831/ I'm not saying that every guy who turns into a woman somehow, according to whatever the medical / legal definitions are, are at an advantage over every CIS woman. But there are enough of them that they impact whatever sport they choose to get into and compete. Sports are a matter of shaving seconds and sometimes hundredths of a second from a score. The tiniest difference matters here. The people who mature as men and are now women have certain obvious advantages no matter what their testosterone levels are or what their BMI is or whatever the current measurement is. In the cases where this does not give them an advantage then we don't hear about it because we don't care about the losers. We just want to know who the winners are and whether or not they cheated to get there. This is cheating. You already said they have an advantage, just not very much. You are supporting the cheaters.
Post #444,563 by static 7/30/24 2:15:55 AM 7/30/24 5:19:38 AM Reply	[reply removed] I should not have responded in the first place. Edited by static July 30, 2024, 05:19:38 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #444,565 by CRConrad 7/30/24 4:44:27 AM 7/30/24 4:44:27 AM Reply	OK, that's you admitting you can't come up with anything because you were wrong.
Post #444,569 by crazy 7/30/24 2:34:54 PM 7/30/24 2:34:55 PM Reply	That's okay Quiet observation is all I can hope for. It's the first step in figuring out that our feelings on this subject matter are essentially the same, I.e: let's not discriminate against trans people.... We take that to further discriminating against all CIS women in this situation. This is a trolley car problem. Who do you discriminate against? Someone will end up a winner and a loser in this situation. Will it be the limited trans athletes who could have been stars or will it be every single CIS woman who has dreams of competing someday whether or not they do? I take this from several perspectives. Hopefully as an enlightened male who cares about women in general. Also, as the father of daughters and the grandfather of granddaughters. Every single one of them counts. Not just the current wannabe athletes.
Post #444,564 by CRConrad 7/30/24 4:42:36 AM 7/30/24 4:42:36 AM Reply	I think "a lot" is doing a lot of work there.
Post #444,568 by boxley 7/30/24 11:09:37 AM 7/30/24 11:09:37 AM Reply	Re: Tif the clit is longer than 5 inches chances are we need a womens, mens, and a who cares, 3 competitive divisions "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #444,570 by crazy 7/30/24 2:37:42 PM 7/30/24 2:37:42 PM Reply	So 4 in gets them in the women's division? Just piling on your bad joke. But I get your point. Agreed. Third division. Other. This will also handle women who turn to guys. They can't possibly compete against the real guys. But they could compete against each other. Is that a fourth division though? How many divisions can we slice this into? Of course this is leading down to the separate but equal path. Which causes revulsion. Oh well.
Post #444,577 by boxley 7/31/24 4:36:22 PM 7/31/24 4:36:22 PM Reply	Re: So 4 in gets them in the women's division? according to clerks II yes "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #444,574 by CRConrad 7/31/24 5:35:26 AM 7/31/24 5:35:26 AM Reply	...chances are, you are a hyena?
Post #444,572 by crazy 7/30/24 10:40:29 PM 7/30/24 10:40:29 PM Reply	And here's an interesting dangerous tidbit I was enjoying myself being educated and entertained about how the women's soccer team screwed up their contract negotiations by asking for and getting exactly what they wanted. https://youtu.be/bL2nBJaxjBI?si=2A0CKJKbuZPhs5BS Which then led me to do a little research and came across this: https://sports.yahoo.com/women-team-five-transgender-players-134934772.html#:~:text=Trans%20women%20have%20played%20with,their%20skill%20and%20experience%20level.%E2%80%9D WTF!?

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