Just to assist in your arrogance

Post #44,392 by boxley 7/3/02 3:50:16 PM Reply	Just to assist in your arrogance These people are not muslims they are Hindu's notice the province Punjab note the class differential. A pathan who had a daughter walking with an outsider would simply kill the outsider. If your going to be arrogant knowledge helps. thanks, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #44,423 by marlowe 7/3/02 8:14:44 PM Reply	I said they were Muslims when? [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Everything's a mystery until you figure out how it works. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #44,477 by broomberg 7/4/02 5:43:54 PM Reply	Sorry Box As much as I typically want to be disassociated with Marlowe, I have to point a few things out. The article pointed to was a highly edited version of the one I am reading the the Philadelphia Inquirer. According to my article (written by the same person), the father of the girl about to be raped: "I begged them ... my daughter is a very pious girl," he said. "I reminded them: 'She has been teaching the Holy Koran to your children. You are fully aware of her character.'" Ok, so they are Muslim. So what? I'm Jewish, and my Rabbi payed someone to murder his wife. Doesn't mean the religion or the community condones it. And again, HE didn't say it, so why did you feel the need to excuse / justify the behaviour by pointing out they are Hindu? Or at the next level, saying they are "better?" (not sure what you meant) since they didn't just kill him on site? At any given point in time, some people such as Marlowe will use a random example of why ALL other people are wrong, and why he is right. In isolated occurences, he will be right. In this case, just because the Pakistani "officials" are now cracking down on this particular case, I have still believe the the general rule is dramatic oppression. That particular village what fully supported the punishment. "Shortly afterward, four council members took turns raping the 18 year old sister in the mud hut as hundreds of people laughed and cheered outside". Sounds like a culturally sanctioned event to me.
Post #44,674 by boxley 7/7/02 9:15:17 AM Reply	maybe wrong but culturally sanctioned rape happens here also The source was the article in the post. From that info I deduced that it being a class issue, it was a caste issue and made that point. Not that they couldnt be muslims, but pakistan is made up of different groups that hate each other mightily. As for the father begging, I dont pretend to know that group, the crews I knew would have been killing everyone in sight for even suggesting it. On the other hand, culturally accepted mass rape happens here in the good old USA. Quite often its called a train and the cops look the other way. They file a report into a drawer and forget about it especially if the female is a minority. thnax, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #44,679 by Brandioch 7/7/02 1:11:11 PM Reply	I agree, but I disagree. The only culturally sanctioned rape I know of over here is gang initiations for female recruits. Those aren't even reported to the police. I'm having trouble understanding this because, in a culturally sanctioned event, it is not reported as a crime. It is not considered a crime. It's difficult to dredge up many examples from the US as our culture is, for the most part, our legal system. "Multiculturalism", as Marlowe wants to portray it, is only a factor when the activities of one culture are accepted by another culture. In the example given, IF the woman had belonged to the SAME TRIBE as the rapists, AND her father had not seen anything wrong with the rape, THEN it would have been a cultural issue. Okay, a BETTER example would be in pre-invasion Afghanistan. If a woman showed her face in public, she could be beaten. And her husband/father would NOT go the police. In other words, if it is REPORTED as a CRIME to the POLICE, it is NOT a CULTURALLY SANCTIONED EVENT. If someone does something that your culture approves of, you do not report it as a crime. Why would you?
Post #44,689 by Ashton 7/7/02 5:24:05 PM Reply	Move it up a level: religious invocation, as in female genital mutilation (which ritual is inculcated from the crib, such that: the 'victim' will most often INSIST later, upon NOT being 'different from her peers' and: missing out.) Mutilation is performed natch, at an age when the victim is utterly ignorant of the effects of the ritual upon her entire life. Only recently have there been any people around who would help a recalcitrant one escape - it seems that 'escape' also means exiting the country. (This 'sacrament' may or may not now be officially: a basis for claiming US sanctuary, last I heard -- if you could ever find the funds to get here, that is.) (What was that argument again re, "Under God", appearing in our local paperwork?) Of course I can't properly discriminate between mutilation Now VS burning in molten lead forever Later .?. in comparing Advanced Religious recipes in either culture. Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish a homo-sap in repose.. from a tick. Ashton
Post #44,695 by Brandioch 7/7/02 6:00:47 PM Reply	Good example. Particularly since such has been the subject of recent investigations in the US. Note: The PARENTS of the child undergoing the operation DO NOT CALL THE POLICE. This is because it is CULTURALLY SANCTIONED. Now, WE can get upset over that and claim it is illegal/bad parenting/whatever. But we were NOT involved. Now THAT would be a good topic for Marlowe's rants against "multiculturalism".
Post #44,757 by boxley 7/8/02 11:29:16 AM Reply	How about this example train leaves the station with female that has been drugged or is high. Police say oh well that what you get when you party with the wrong people and round file the report. They do not return calls from victim, family or legal representatives. This is a very common thing in parts of America. I think this is culturally sanctioned or people would go to Jail for it. hanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #44,781 by Brandioch 7/8/02 1:20:28 PM Reply	"Culture" or "Racism" or "Sexism" (or whatever'ism)? I'm not sure whether I'd be more inclinded to file that under "racism" or "sexism" on the part of the cops. If it were the daughter of the cop, would things be different?
Post #44,782 by boxley 7/8/02 1:25:13 PM Reply	Maybe if the woman was white it might make a difference Although it happens with white women and highschool sports teams. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #44,789 by Brandioch 7/8/02 2:27:18 PM Reply	misogynistic. Yup. Different cases, different forms, but a similar origin. Women are second class citizens. (Sexism) Non-whites are second class citizens. (Racism) You're really fucked if you're a female minority. I'd say that enforcement usually depends more upon the level of sexism/racism of the cop(s) on the scene. Of course, our culture USED to be formally misogynistic. That thread still runs in some sub-cultures (and lots of individuals). And, our culture USED to be formally racist. Again, that has not been eradicated in all sub-cultures (or individuals). Hmmmm, our culture is still in transition. Good point. What is the difference between an individually held *'ism and a culturally supported viewpoint? Considering that individuals get their viewpoints from their local culture.
Post #44,792 by boxley 7/8/02 2:46:00 PM Reply	question "Considering that individuals get their viewpoints from their local culture" wanna expand on that since you have stated elsewhere that there is no defining cultural differences between groups and races here in the US :) thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #44,807 by Brandioch 7/8/02 4:33:25 PM Reply	sub-culture. What I've said before is that there is no "black culture" in the US. That being, the blacks in Seattle do not share the same sub-culture as the blacks in Alabama which do not share the same sub-culture as the blacks in New Orleans. Each of those groups has more in common with the culture of the USofA than they have with each other.
Post #44,820 by Ashton 7/8/02 6:49:03 PM Reply	Let's not forget the thread common to Most-all, though. 'Our' Puritan background: it's $^&#$% Everywhere! Along with 'Our' common Acual religion: $$ Add Sex, simmer over bombast + sanctimony and ya get --
Post #44,842 by a6l6e6x 7/8/02 10:31:27 PM Reply	f... if you're a female minority except in one context - "affirmative action". On a business trip, back in the late seventies, I met and had dinner with a black female IBM Systems Engineer (really sales). I recall her jokingly saying that, at IBM, she was "a double tickie" and had Nazis also counted, she would be "triple tickie". Her mother was German and married her father while he was in the service and stationed in Germany. Alex "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Post #44,847 by Brandioch 7/8/02 11:37:46 PM Reply	I know another. "Hispanic" woman. Her mother was Spanish. As in Spain. In Europe. But the government classified that as "Hispanic".
Post #45,609 by CRConrad 7/15/02 9:24:12 AM Reply	Yeah, so... What's wrong with that? Spanish is as Hispanic as it gets, innit? Christian R. Conrad Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971\|Andrew Grygus]

Welcome to IWETHEY!