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New So cardboard isn't recycled where you live; nowhere to take it?
New They've broken recycling in the US
Back in the 70s we could recycle paper and cardboard by taking it to a container behind the city municipal building. We weren't required to, but for a time when most of us got a daily newspaper it was a simple and obviously good idea.

There were places we could take glass and aluminum, mostly soda bottles and cans, and get paid for them by weight. Because we sorted them by type and color, they could pay us for them and still make money turning it back into raw materials.

But then they stopped making glass bottles and went to plastic. Then everything went to plastic, and we started noticing all the garbage piling up everywhere. The container manufacturers and soda companies didn't want us pointing the finger at them, so they funded an iconic ad campaign to convince people we were the problem.

But we still had all this plastic. So the oil companies convinced us we could recycle plastic. But no one had infrastructure to collect it, so they sold local governments on the idea of "mixed input stream" recycling. Just put it all in one bin and let the recycler (in China) sort it out.

We spent decades shipping our trash overseas, until China decided they didn't want our trash any more. We tried redirecting it to a few other countries, but no one wanted it, or could handle the volume.

Now that we were stuck with it, all the local infrastructure for collecting pre-sorted paper and glass and metal has gone away, and people have gotten used to putting all the "recyclables" in one bin, and we've never been good at separating what's actually recyclable, and plastic recycling has never been financially viable to begin with ... so most of our recycling gets shipped to the same landfills as the regular trash.

But hey, that's not a problem for the oil companies or container manufacturers to deal with. No, that's because consumers are lazy and don't care about the planet.
--

Drew
New We have separate recycling bins for plastic packaging too, but **** knows...
...if maybe their contents end up at the same incineration plant as the "general non-recyclable" garbage. Think I've seen a few (storm in a teacup) "scandals" like that, about various municipalities, pop up in the media over the last decade or so. Specifically about plastics, that is. But all the rest -- glass, metals, paper, cardboard -- seems, judging from the lack of such media hullaballoo, to be working at least tolerably well.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New Scientists have found, completely by accident . . .
. . that the saliva of a certain moth lava destroys polyethylene, and does is amazingly quickly. Now if the organic chemists can figure out how to make it in volume, possibly by genetically engineered bacteria or something, it could solve one part of the plastics problem - unless it's found the byproducts of destruction are
highly damaging to the atmosphere.

Of course, one side effect of our current non-recycling (or destroying) of plastics, is they are sequestering a whole lot of carbon that might otherwise be floating around in the atmosphere.
New Wasn't that some kid's high school science fair project?
--

Drew
New It was discovered by a lady . . .
. . who was gathering the moth larva for a project. Don't know if it was her project or otherwise. She gathered them into a polyurethane bag, and when she got it home she noticed it was full of holes. I don't remember if she was a scientist or had plenty of contact with scientists.
New And in most western countries.
Here in the land down under, we also have a what-do-we-do-with-all-our-recycling problem. Particularly glass.

It's well documented that various industries campaigned long and hard many years ago to get rid of paying for recyclable material. And governments rolled over because they wouldn't think far enough ahead.

Wade.
New Glass seems to be problematic (and I've contributed to the problem).
Heard / read somewhere (sorry, can't recall the source) that the kind of glass you can put to be recycled is only jars and bottles, not broken drinking glasses and stuff; the latter can't be re-melted the same way. I suppose it's that "crystal" glass is done at a much higher temperature, so mixing that in means it can't be re-used for jars and bottles. Should have hot the hint from how much thinner than simple containers tableware glass can be, and how much sharper the shards are. I only put jars in there now and save the rest for when I go to the recycling centre, where they have a more fine-grained classification of bins to put stuff in. But of course the glass bin in our building still has table glasses and vases and stuff in it, because most people don't know this.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New Yeah... "glass is glass"... which it's not.
People also put stuff like broken Pyrex in "glass recycling" which needs its own special processing.

Wade.
New It's not part of my garbage package
I pay for two large cans of garbage weekly and a can of recyclables every other week. The recyclables are simply metal and glass.

There is a dump where I could take it to approximately 40 minutes away. They have the free drop off area for cardboard. I'd need four or five trips in my GMC Yukon, a very large gas guzzly vehicle. Over $100 of gas plus a huge carbon footprint as I putt putt back and forth.

I'd say the least worst is to burn it and I can wait for the rain to do that.

Once I have my garden set up I will use large amounts of cardboard as bottom and middle layers in compost piles.
New Not just compost piles
--

Drew
New Lasagna gardens, my ass! And spaghetti grows on trees, right?!?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti-tree_hoax

ISTR a version of that was done by Swedish public service TV in the early seventies. Or maybe it was just a report on this British one that I caught a flash of in passing, can't recall for sure.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New Yeah, that sounds sucky. Maybe just save it for the gardening?
I mean, that sounds like a huge amount of cardboard; gotta be leftovers from moving in and doing renovations and so on? Or are you anticipating an equally huge influx regularly in the future too? If so, where does such a humongous mass of cardboard come from? If not, maybe better to hang on to the current load for future composting (and possibly multi-level mark-- eh, gardening) needs.

I mean, what I get is mostly milk cartons, maybe six to eight liter or one-and-a-half liter ones per week; plus the occasional shoe box (for instance, my son Max bought himself a pair of wellies [=rubber boots] yesterday, which came in a box) and very rarely some really big boxes like for computer monitors or stuff. Oh, and a toilet paper / kitchen towel roll or two per week, and packaging for some other foodstuff like beans or crushed tomatoes. But still, I can't think how many years it would take us to accumulate four-five Yukon-loads. Maybe America just has some weird packaging culture where absolutely everything you buy comes in a cardboard box...?
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New Yes, absolutely everything comes in a cardboard box
And plastic, either inside or outside the cardboard.

But I suspect Crazy is dealing mostly with Amazon boxes.
--

Drew
New In the past 6 months of the burn ban
I've had a new kitchen installed, a new living room set delivered in boxes from Amazon, large screen TV, bedroom set along with a Murphy bed set up and installed, which meant lots of floor rip out and rebuild, a swim spa install which means an enormous thing delivered on a huge pallet that I had to hire a construction forklift with 6 ft forks to move along with a second pallet with all the side and tiki bar roof pieces, infrared sauna installed, many many tools and Amazon deliveries, a washer dryer big enough to handle a king size comforter set up on my front porch, fish pond dugout and laid in with a 25x25 liner. That liner came on its own palette.

There is a junction box on the side of the fish pond that I can have a plug installed. I'll have that going in the next couple of days. And at that point I can build my filter system. I'd say I'll probably will have it running in about a week.

Still working on electricity. I maxed out the circuit box in my house, running the various new lines I needed for the new kitchen and the outside washer dryer and a whole bunch extra outside lines and a whole bunch more in my upstairs kitchen.

So I had the electric company upgrade the transformer on my pole and today the electrician installed the new 320 amp service which required a 5 ft deep 8 ft long trench right up against the electric pole. That will allow three RV plugs to the long driveway plus 200 amps to the back to run the swim spa, the sauna, the projector room, the wood shop, and the fish pond.

That still requires the electric company inspection plus more electrician work and filling in the hole and cementing everything down. And more inspections of course. And then they have to dig from that point 150 ft to the other side of the property to feed it into everything else. That's going to be at least a couple more months so I've got some serious extension cords from the house right now running everything in the back.

The infrared sauna claims it will fit four but will comfortably fit two with lots of extra room. There is lots of glass and half of it faces the projection screen and it has its own speakers built inside.

When I say new kitchen, I don't mean we swapped out some appliances. Our current kitchen is upstairs and are our new kitchen is downstairs which allows us to have two kitchens operating simultaneously.

While there is a bit of finishing work to do I'm sure it will be ready for M's father in January (we get him two months a year) and for visitors after that.

I'm not sure I'm going to pursue the current boat further. It's too big and too old and too complex for me. The trailer can kill me just when I'm trying to hook it up. Too much to go wrong. Gasoline engine dying out on the water in a boat too big to row is not something I'm looking forward to. I'm going to start off with a zodiac and a trolling motor that is a 10 HP equivalent running off of a battery. That will be plenty to get me into the middle of the fishing lane to throw the crab traps.

And something with that little power does not need a state safety certificate so I can just do it.

Pretty much everything I described came with cardboard. The stuff on pallets had enormous amounts of cardboard interspersed. The refrigerator came in a cardboard box as well as the oven and all the various bits of cabinets. All the furniture came in boxes. The Murphy bed came in many sets of large boxes.

Anytime I order anything off of Amazon it comes in least two and possibly three boxes. And I order a lot off Amazon. I wanted olives. The store is 20 minutes away. So I ordered a case of them and waited a day. Now I have plenty of olives and two boxes. I never tell Amazon to consolidate everything into less boxes because that means stuff is sitting in a warehouse waiting for an internal step as people gather stuff and put it together to ship it somewhere else to take stuff out and put it back together. No thanks. So lots of individual or few items in lots of boxes. Multiply that by every impulse buy I could ever possibly want in the last 6 months.

Right now I have a pile about 8 high and that pile is mostly sliced open and flattened boxes shoved into other boxes with absolute maximum fill. And that pile is about 20 feet wide.
New Holy shit, yeah, that's a lot.
Still, sounds like it's going to get a lot less now that all the building and boat-buying and so on is pretty much done. But yeah, I can see how just the Amazon shopping will be enough for composting etc, so you need to get rid of that pile.

One last thing I'm wondering about: Having Amazon not consolidate but ship every purchase separately, doesn't that make shipping more expensive? Or, you're on that Prime thingy so you don't pay for shipping? Feels a bit weird; if I were them I'd probably make consolidation mandatory for customers who get shipping free, if I could save money hat way... But maybe they wouldn't actually save all that much; maybe the back-and-forth steps you describe cost them about as much as just shipping every package separately, since they already have a system optimised for that.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New They offer discounts to consolidate
If you are willing to delay a day or two or three or a week. When you go to do a final checkout it will attempt to push you for a further delivery date to allow for the consolidation.

The discounts are usually a dollar or two for the entire order. I never take it. I don't want the delay and I don't want pieces of the order lost as they go through the human consolidation process. I tell them to just ship everything individually as they can. Sometimes they will consolidate certain items depending on where they are coming from.

And yes I have that Amazon prime thingy. As far as I'm concerned, the entertainment I get off of prime is worth the 6 bucks a month. The free shipping and prime member discounts are just a bonus. Also, as a prime member, about 20 or 30% of everything I click on adds an additional discount of 5 to 20%. It's worth it just to click into the actual entry rather than trust the initial price because it could always possibly be less.

Yes, the vast majority of my purchases are done. But there will be plenty of cardboard in the future.

I'll be doing the gardening setup in early spring and at that point I will set up 3 ft high steel beds. The first foot and a half will be cardboard and chunks of wood (I've got a pile of fireplace size split logs that could be the base of about a half a dozen beds) and a few rocks and some brown brush and a bunch of leaves. That will take a year or two to break down but that's exactly what I want. That will give me a decent aerated drainage area while the wood rots. The top foot and a half will be decent dirt.

Edit: actually this pile of logs could be the base for 20 3 x 8 beds. I don't want beds wider than that so I can always sit in front of one and reach into the center easily and I want pathways between them so I can only fit around 10 of these on my property.
Expand Edited by crazy Oct. 19, 2022, 09:52:46 AM EDT
     Give me rain. Damn it - (crazy) - (18)
         October 19th the weather will be warmer and wetter. - (a6l6e6x)
         So cardboard isn't recycled where you live; nowhere to take it? -NT - (CRConrad) - (16)
             They've broken recycling in the US - (drook) - (7)
                 We have separate recycling bins for plastic packaging too, but **** knows... - (CRConrad) - (3)
                     Scientists have found, completely by accident . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                         Wasn't that some kid's high school science fair project? -NT - (drook) - (1)
                             It was discovered by a lady . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                 And in most western countries. - (static) - (2)
                     Glass seems to be problematic (and I've contributed to the problem). - (CRConrad) - (1)
                         Yeah... "glass is glass"... which it's not. - (static)
             It's not part of my garbage package - (crazy) - (7)
                 Not just compost piles - (drook) - (1)
                     Lasagna gardens, my ass! And spaghetti grows on trees, right?!? - (CRConrad)
                 Yeah, that sounds sucky. Maybe just save it for the gardening? - (CRConrad) - (4)
                     Yes, absolutely everything comes in a cardboard box - (drook)
                     In the past 6 months of the burn ban - (crazy) - (2)
                         Holy shit, yeah, that's a lot. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                             They offer discounts to consolidate - (crazy)

I've found if I press just the right spot on the base of the laptop while it's running, eCS will crash.
71 ms