Plug replacement safety sanity check

Post #439,855 by crazy 9/15/21 9:29:19 AM 9/15/21 9:29:19 AM Reply	Plug replacement safety sanity check I bought three of these without reading the reviews. I've killed 2 far within the first 2 days of usage. I have one more left. I could return them and replace them with something else and go through that but I really like them. If they work. And I have one taped into my bedroom window really well. That tape was expected to last as long as the house. I really like T-Rex clear tape. That stuff is rock solid. I don't want to rip it out if I don't have to. Lasko W09560 Bluetooth Enabled Twin 9-Inch Window Fan with Independent Electrically Reversible Intake & Exhaust Motors with Thermostat and Timer for Bedroom Indoor Home Use, 9 Inches, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081HDYTF4/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_2PG676ED6CYKJD4WJYA0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 Googling the issue says this is a known problem. There is a non-replaceable fuse in the plug that blows in them. Either the fuse is mis-sized or there's an electrical fault in the actual fan. One guy claimed to be an electrical engineer and he swapped out of the plug with another plug and then has been using it happily forever. I assume I can calculate the expected draw based on labeling when I look closer in a bit. I also have an electrical measurement socket that will be able to tell me exactly how much it draws under normal activity and what happens when the next fuse blows because I have one more to try. So the question then becomes what plug do I replace it with and what fuse do I put in there because I'm not going to let it go wild. I need a plug with swappable fuses that is adjustable. I would take whatever fuse amount is currently there if I can and adjust slightly higher. I would also have it plugged into a circuit breaker power strip to be sure. I have the time to do it and I don't consider it a terrible thing to do and it would take far less effort than the effort to box them back and return them because I am the sticks and that's at least a 20 minute drive each way, dealing with the covid infected public while waiting in a large line. On the other hand I can get deliveries with no problem and I don't care about the wait. Is this a reasonable path or am I inviting danger?
Post #439,857 by boxley 9/15/21 10:45:07 AM 9/15/21 10:45:07 AM Reply	what happens when you put a surge protector between fan and outlet "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #439,860 by crazy 9/15/21 11:20:01 AM 9/15/21 11:20:01 AM Reply	Not done it yet Twice before was in a wall outlet directly. Currently there's a 30 watt LED spotlight in it just running. I have yet to dig out my power equipment, still boxed up from move.
Post #439,861 by Another Scott 9/15/21 11:48:06 AM 9/15/21 11:48:06 AM Reply	You shouldn't need a fused plug. They're common/required in the UK but not in the US. https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3OGGOZUTME3MW/ seems to know what he's talking about (and that seems to be the same review you found). Any lamp cord type plug should work fine - the fan is low power, but the web page and manual don't say how much power it draws. https://www.lasko.com/products/electrically-reversible-twin-window-fan-with-bluetooth-w09560/ https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-10-Amp-Volt-Brown-2-Wire-Polarized-Plug/1002942336 Motors draw more power when they start up than when they're running. Figuring out what next size fuse you need could be tricky, and if it's too big (too high amps) it won't help. If you are really worried about needing a fuse, you could plug it into a cheap power strip with a breaker. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #439,862 by crazy 9/15/21 1:56:40 PM 9/15/21 1:56:40 PM Reply	Ok. Thanks
Post #439,871 by crazy 9/16/21 1:06:19 PM 9/16/21 1:06:19 PM Reply	Tested it out Swap the plug, it works. Minimal draw with an occasional surge on fan reversal. Nothing gets hot. Their wire is much skinnier than mine so anything I added won't increase the resistance. And now I have the temperature camera so I can be sure of hotspots. The problem is it is purely temperature driven. I can't simply turn it on at a direction. It's too smart for me. It'll be useful later.
Post #439,873 by drook 9/16/21 3:37:20 PM 9/16/21 3:37:20 PM Reply	Why would the fan ever reverse? If it's temperature driven, wouldn't there be a range where it's not blowing in either direction? -- Drew
Post #439,877 by scoenye 9/16/21 8:18:46 PM 9/16/21 8:18:46 PM Reply	Re: Why would the fan ever reverse? We have similar fan, different brand and no internet interference. The fans can spin in opposite directions. You can start of with both fans blowing out and as temperature inside and outside reach equilibrium, it will switch to having on blow in and the other out. If things then cool off outside it may decide to have both blow in. Ours does not wait for a complete spindown before reversing. During the overlap you can hear the motor strain until the fan finally starts spinning in the proper direction.
Post #439,881 by drook 9/16/21 11:14:48 PM 9/16/21 11:14:48 PM Reply	For another penny per device in additional coding they could probably fix that -- Drew
Post #439,865 by scoenye 9/15/21 8:27:40 PM 9/15/21 8:27:40 PM Reply	My 0.02A Going by the patent it seems they stuffed a Buss-style fuse inside the plug. Given you have 2 donor devices, grind down one of the plugs until you get to the fuse and you may be able to figure out what rating they used (from another post I found, the blue part is just a mold over the plug to prevent you from replacing the fuse.) Barring serious problems with your electric supply (but then you would be grossing in light bulbs too), I would consider the things defective. A motor does not need a fast blowing fuse and any electronics are behind a DC converter. The only thing I can think of is that they undersized the fuse to limit current draw by a jammed motor but forgot the surge when the motor reverses combined with the upward creeping US voltage (ours is now 123V) and cut things too close. As to what the fuse is really there for: A fuse will react to rapid failure conditions, and current increase over its capacity, and will protect components upstream from the motor, such as the cordset. :-/ PS. from the manual AVOID the use of extension cords, power strips, power taps, outlet style air fresheners or other cord connected device, as these devices may overheat and cause a fire hazard. - Quick - go unplug everything connected via a cord (including these fans)! ;-) PPS. Welcome to the sticks!
Post #439,867 by Andrew Grygus 9/16/21 2:50:18 AM 9/16/21 2:50:18 AM Reply	They must be reselling these from China. Chinese stuff always looks really good - but it often doesn't work. A low power fan needs a fuse "like a fish needs a bicycle". The Chinese are probably also selling these in Europe, where fuses may be required, and the voltage there is double, so the amperage is half. And yes, the creep. Not just voltage. In times past electric power was at 50 CPS (50Hz now), but the distribution equipment was getting old and couldn't meet the demand. The power companies moved to 60 CPS because the transformers could handle more power at the higher frequencies. That's why aircraft use 400 CPS so the transformers they need are much lighter. Also in music. A 400 has creeped up to A 440. Makes singing old stuff difficult at the high notes. Some people resisted this change. A relative described to me an elderly lady they knew who refused to buy a new clock, and adjusted her 50 cps clock twice a day.
Post #439,868 by drook 9/16/21 8:09:22 AM 9/16/21 8:09:22 AM Reply	I understand why the power freq shifted, but why music? -- Drew
Post #439,869 by Andrew Grygus 9/16/21 12:24:03 PM 9/16/21 12:24:03 PM Reply	But why music? Some orchestras liked to present a slightly sharper sound than others, and it just kept creeping up until 440 became the standard. One of the Russian orchestras, I think St. Petersberg, likes a different sound, and tunes a bit below 440.
Post #439,875 by malraux 9/16/21 7:53:52 PM 9/16/21 7:53:52 PM Reply	More on that https://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/13/nyregion/as-pitch-in-opera-rises-so-does-debate.html Drive my son nuts, what with his perfect pitch. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #439,882 by drook 9/16/21 11:15:58 PM 9/16/21 11:15:58 PM Reply	Bah, paywall -- Drew
Post #439,884 by malraux 9/17/21 9:24:19 AM 9/17/21 9:24:19 AM Reply	Unrelated: It's amazing how quick the NY Times site is with JavaScript turned off. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #439,886 by drook 9/17/21 12:02:33 PM 9/17/21 12:02:33 PM Reply	OK, now that I've read it ... Pieces were written based on what the human performers could physically handle. (Speaking of opera here, orchestral is a somewhat different issue.) Unless human anatomy has significantly changed in the last 2-3 centuries, I don't imagine people's vocal chords are yet capable of significantly higher ranges. And more "brilliance" and "excitement" ... Maybe the piece isn't intended to be that brilliant and exciting, else it would have been written in a higher key. -- Drew
Post #439,890 by CRConrad 9/17/21 4:11:47 PM 9/17/21 4:11:47 PM Reply	Does singing develop like sports? Athletes regularly do stuff thought impossible a few decades ago.
Post #439,891 by drook 9/17/21 4:49:47 PM 9/17/21 4:49:47 PM Reply	Thought about that, but I don't think so Pitch and resonance are related to the physical volume of the anatomy. Unless skulls and chests and throats have changed, I don't see why natural ranges would change. -- Drew
Post #439,893 by CRConrad 9/18/21 9:13:00 AM 9/18/21 9:13:00 AM Reply	Just like running speed and jump height/length are related to bone and muscle...
Post #439,894 by drook 9/18/21 9:41:13 AM 9/18/21 9:41:13 AM Reply	But we've gotten taller, which would make natural ranges lower not higher -- Drew
Post #439,892 by Andrew Grygus 9/17/21 11:21:51 PM 9/17/21 11:21:51 PM Reply	A strange recording . . . Some years ago I bought a recording of Offenbach's "Les Contes d'Hoffman" (Tales of Hoffman), which turned out to be very strange indeed. It was recorded in Argentina, by an orchestra I'd never heard of. In fact, the only name I recognized was Peter Maag, the once famous conductor who suddenly disappeared, and was found years later in a Buddhist monastery near Hong Kong. The orchestra sounds like something off old 78s. There's a whole lot of stage noise, but the voices are recorded very well. For a critical part, the wind-up singing doll, they hired an aging soprano just a few months from retirement. Could she still sing the part? She brought down the house. That was Mady Mesplé, who's specialty was a very strong voice in registers other sopranos couldn't even get to. She died last year at 89. That's the way to end your career all right. "Gather round girls, and listen to what you will never be able to do."
Post #439,885 by CRConrad 9/17/21 9:37:09 AM 9/17/21 9:37:09 AM Reply	archive.is.your.friend Heh, anyone remember the old "GIYF" acronym...? :-( Anyhoo, as I was saying: https://archive.is/SkvPI -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #439,876 by scoenye 9/16/21 8:00:54 PM 9/16/21 8:00:54 PM Reply	I think it is a UK thing only https://www2.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=35752 They appear to supply the entire house from a single circuit requiring lower rated fuses on each appliance. AFAIK, no one on the Continent does it that way (although I'm not going to stick my hand in the fire as to what is possible in the former Comecon parts...)

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