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New "Hillary lost because of Comey."
So, no new material yet.

Come on, Scott. You're better than that. Hillary lost because she was a crappy candidate. Surely there's no harm in admitting that now.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Disagree
If we say it was because she was a bad candidate, then it lets the media off the hook for the things they did to make the problems worse. When there are many problems, we have to address all of them.
--

Drew
New Drum has the receipts.
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/06/lets-cut-crap-about-why-hillary-clinton-lost/

But look: no candidate is perfect and every campaign has stuff like that. It comes with the territory. And despite all that, Clinton had a comfortable 7-point lead by the end of September. Those things couldn’t have been the reason for her loss since they were all well known by then. After that, she crushed Trump in all three debates and was all set to win.

So why didn’t she? The answer is pretty simple: despite running a pretty good campaign, she got walloped by things that decidedly don’t come with the territory: Russian interference via the WikiLeaks drip; an indefensible letter released by the FBI director; and a press corps that treated the Comey letter like the OJ trial. She got slammed late in the game, and had no time to recover.

That’s just what happened. Denying that reality because we like losers to wear hair shirts is dumb.


HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Based on how well the polling went, it probably wasn't a 7 point lead.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New :-)
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Heh. That's some list of three things she did wrong.
Here's a little better one
https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/sep/02/11-examples-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-hol/

And that doesn't even count not going to Wisconsin.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Dunno what universe you live in, but in the one the rest of us inhabit...
...the 2016 presidential election wasn't between Clinton and Sanders. She won the primary, so in comparison to Sanders, she did obviously get shit more right than wrong. It was the one against Trump she lost.

The discussion is "Was she screwed by the Russians / media / twenty-year Republican hate campaign, or did she lose through her own fault?". Neither is applicable to her primary campaign against Sanders, because she didn't lose that one.

Do try not to let your irrational hatred of her cloud your mind to the extent that it obviously did here.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New I used that list because it pointed out to most sentient beings that listing only three things
was a half-assed attempt to describe her "weaknesses". Anything on the "differences with Sanders" was a reason not to vote for her. I thought that was obvious. HTH.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New You thought (as usual) wrong. Better leave the thinking to people who don't fuck it up all the time.
Expand Edited by CRConrad Aug. 31, 2021, 03:57:19 AM EDT
New Sorry. I overestimated you again.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Almost correct. Only, as so often before, it was yourself you overestimated.
New To be clear, GroupThink != Think. HTH.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Yes, exactly. So you should really try to wean yourself off the Clinton-hater right-wing groupthink.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New Eh, not exactly.
The Right attacks her for being too Left (and for being a woman who knows she's above a life of barefoot pregnancy in the kitchen). I attack her for things like helping the garment industry in Haiti block the establishment of trade unions, her support for just about any old war, her (and her husband's) all too cozy relationship with Wall Street, her remarkable belief that repealing Glass-Steagall was a good idea, her antipathy toward offering US kids today the very same privilege that she and I both had - tuition free junior college (can't tax her fellow oligarchs to pay for that or any other social program donchaknow), etc. In short, the Right criticizes her for being a Socialist. I criticize her for being nowhere near Left, let alone a Socialist.

The GroupThink that has emerged among some here is that she lost to the deranged orangutan through no fault of her own. If anyone other than she is to blame for her loss, a reasonable candidate would be Bernie. He ran on a rather standard Democratic candidate's platform and was attacked vociferously for doing so. He offered a glimpse of what Democratic Party principles used to be before her husband sold the soul of the Democratic Party to Wall Street donors.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New That was great.
An absolutely coherent post from you. It was beautiful. Thank you.

Hey CRC, as much as he may annoy us he's got some points here.

This is not default predjuice or hate. This is well thought out points.
New Except for one
"... through no fault of her own."

No one here has ever said that. There were many reasons, including her policies. What we've said repeatedly is that she would have won even with her less-than-ideal policies had it not been for the dirty tricks and stupid media horse-race-and-scandal coverage.

Right now you want to point out that those policies were for worse than that, but if you do that only proves my point. Her policies were one of many problems. And frankly, she could have had the better policies that you prefer and I don't know that it would have changed much.
--

Drew
New Finally, even the Senator from MBNA beat him FFS.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
     Quelle surprise. - (malraux) - (27)
         you forgot the Sarcasm flag -NT - (lincoln)
         Caution. - (Another Scott) - (25)
             does it matter? - (boxley) - (24)
                 Buttery males! -NT - (drook)
                 More information is good. - (Another Scott) - (18)
                     And because of the NYT - (drook)
                     "Hillary lost because of Comey." - (mmoffitt) - (16)
                         Disagree - (drook)
                         Drum has the receipts. - (Another Scott) - (14)
                             Based on how well the polling went, it probably wasn't a 7 point lead. -NT - (malraux) - (1)
                                 :-) -NT - (boxley)
                             Heh. That's some list of three things she did wrong. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                 Dunno what universe you live in, but in the one the rest of us inhabit... - (CRConrad) - (10)
                                     I used that list because it pointed out to most sentient beings that listing only three things - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                         You thought (as usual) wrong. Better leave the thinking to people who don't fuck it up all the time. -NT - (CRConrad) - (7)
                                             Sorry. I overestimated you again. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                                 Almost correct. Only, as so often before, it was yourself you overestimated. -NT - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                                     To be clear, GroupThink != Think. HTH. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                         Yes, exactly. So you should really try to wean yourself off the Clinton-hater right-wing groupthink. -NT - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                             Eh, not exactly. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                 That was great. - (crazy) - (1)
                                                                     Except for one - (drook)
                                     Finally, even the Senator from MBNA beat him FFS. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                 Huh? Is that actually what your memory is telling you went down?!? - (CRConrad)
                 Benghazi , Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi! - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                     whats that have to do with the price of peanuts? - (boxley) - (1)
                         The purpose was put her down even more. -NT - (a6l6e6x)

No, it's too perilous.
78 ms