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Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Yeah, I knew what you meant.
Like I said, France, Turkey, etc.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Yeah, I still don't get that. The French are not in a Union with Turkey, and didn't elect Erdogan.
New The EU and the US are not (yet) analogous
New Ah, thought they had been ratified. Hungary then.
Are you in Finland responsible for Orban and Fidesz, with their anti-Muslim stance? How about Poland and the anti-LGBT zones? Slovenia and journalist crackdowns too. Are you personally responsible for the opinions and actions of those countries?

Seems pretty analogous to me: EU member states have to follow EU laws, but each member state has its own constitution and government. Same thing here, we've just got more of them. The main difference is that the US doesn't have a mechanism to let states leave on their own, primarily because the US was incorporated that way and states generally weren't countries before they joined the union.

Texas, however, was its own country before joining the US.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Don't forget the Vermont Republic ;-)
New EU Law is really quite optional
Worked example: all the stuff the UK just opted the fuck out of

Also, the US is a nation-state that devolves a lot of legislative ability down to the constituent states. The EU is more of a club with a shitload of rules, which, if you don't like them, you can just leave.

The most notable defining characteristic here is that the US can declare war on another nation, whilst the EU cannot.

There are some more woolly differences, like the lack of a standard language, or power socket, or overarching shared identity.
New As I said, the US has no mechanism for states to leave on their own
The main difference is that and the war thing (which isn't much of an issue given NATO). The EU is still young, and I imagine there were more similarities to back when the US was formed. Give it a few hundred years and the EU could be in a similar position.

Other similarities: the EU participates in treaties, and there's freedom of travel, occupation, and living arrangements - as that worked example of yours is discovering.

Also, it's that devolving of legislative ability that's key here. There's really fuck-all I can do to affect what goes on in Texas, and I feel a lot more sympatico with the foreign country across the river from me than I do with the Republic of Texas.

So, perfect analogy? No, of course not. But it's nowhere near as cut and dried as CRC would have us believe.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Yeah, so get back to us with your as-of-now-false equivalence in a couple hundred years.
New You've got your levels mixed up.
The people here in Helsinki are, as a nation state, "responsible" for their compatriots in Lapland, and vice versa. That's the corresponding level to the nation state USA. I wasn't holding you responsible for what happens in your fellow NAFTA countries, was I?

And Turkey "ratified" -- presumably, as an EU member?!? AFAIK, they haven't even put in an official membership application. There were preliminary talks, around and probably shortly after the turn of the century, that they were going to. But, I don't know if you've noticed, they've since regressed to become more of a typical Middle-Eastern semi-theocratic dictatorship, and even they themselves have the nous to figure out that given this there's no use even applying.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New Well, I have noticed the regression of Turkey.
It's now a theocratic government.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New from the news reports it is now a thugocracy as opposed to a theocracy
if the reports of criminal access to the top of the government is to be believed
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New I'm with BOx, except one small edit: A thugocracy albeit (rather flimsily) *disguised as* theocracy.
New Hasn't that been true of most of them?
--

Drew
New Whenever Turkey is in the news, it's always worse than we thought.
Reuters (from 5/20):

A gang leader's video allegations of corruption among top officials has gripped millions of Turks, threatening to tarnish the image of a government already struggling with economic woes and the COVID-19 outbreak.

Convicted criminal gang leader Sedat Peker, who has a large following on social media, on Thursday released the sixth of a series of videos on YouTube which have evolved into a bitter dispute with Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu.

"Clean Suleyman, lion Suleyman. He sent a tweet about me calling me 'dirty mafia'... I will tell you today about 'clean Suleyman'," Peker said in one of the videos, before launching into his accusations.

Peker has served several jail sentences in Turkey and said last week he is now in Dubai.

In often rambling monologues addressed to the camera from behind a desk, Peker has made uncorroborated allegations regarding suspicious deaths, rape and drug dealing, alleging links to officials close to President Tayyip Erdogan. The six videos have been viewed as many as 30 million times in total.


As I commented elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if Erdogan tries to arrest everyone who has viewed the videos...

:-/

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: You have a point. :)
They are only claiming a theocratic orientation.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
     And, as everyone said it would happen - (lincoln) - (31)
         Like... Sees a dog, and her -=immediate=- reaction is to shoot[*] it? - (CRConrad) - (30)
             I'm glad the dog is okay - (crazy) - (1)
                 Context matters, too - (drook)
             Re: Like... Sees a dog, and her -=immediate=- reaction is to shoot[*] it? - (lincoln) - (27)
                 Texans are Americans. Invite them to use their secession option, or own them. -NT - (CRConrad) - (26)
                     My plan is . . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                     The first has been prohibited since the Civil War - (malraux) - (16)
                         No, the other meaning of "own": This is your mess, own it. - (CRConrad) - (15)
                             Yeah, I knew what you meant. - (malraux) - (14)
                                 Yeah, I still don't get that. The French are not in a Union with Turkey, and didn't elect Erdogan. -NT - (CRConrad) - (13)
                                     The EU and the US are not (yet) analogous -NT - (pwhysall)
                                     Ah, thought they had been ratified. Hungary then. - (malraux) - (11)
                                         Don't forget the Vermont Republic ;-) -NT - (scoenye)
                                         EU Law is really quite optional - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                             As I said, the US has no mechanism for states to leave on their own - (malraux) - (1)
                                                 Yeah, so get back to us with your as-of-now-false equivalence in a couple hundred years. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                         You've got your levels mixed up. - (CRConrad) - (6)
                                             Well, I have noticed the regression of Turkey. - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                                                 from the news reports it is now a thugocracy as opposed to a theocracy - (boxley) - (4)
                                                     I'm with BOx, except one small edit: A thugocracy albeit (rather flimsily) *disguised as* theocracy. -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                         Hasn't that been true of most of them? -NT - (drook)
                                                     Whenever Turkey is in the news, it's always worse than we thought. - (Another Scott)
                                                     Re: You have a point. :) - (a6l6e6x)
                     Texans are a subset of Americans - (lincoln) - (7)
                         But, they can split into 5 states, if I recall correctly. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                             Oh, was that theirs? I may have misremembered the option. Thanks! -NT - (CRConrad)
                             Ironically, that limit does not apply to other states - (scoenye) - (3)
                                 As I got it, this was a boon, not a limit: Up to 5, Texas can just do it - it's pre-approved. -NT - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                     It applied to the Republic of Texas - (scoenye) - (1)
                                         If Californians keep moving to Texas . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                         Yes, that's what "Texans are Americans" means. Welcome to remedial first-grade English. -NT - (CRConrad)

Fall not in love therefore; it will stick to your face.
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