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New Anybody know anything about home gas lines?
We have been enjoying an absolute horror show since the third week of August. To make a long story short, in the Spring of 2000 we built a house. There was no natural gas available at the time, so Propane gas appliances were installed (furnace, dryer, hot water heater, stove, gas fireplace). Natural gas has been available for a while and after a fight with our propane vendor, we decided to switch to natural gas.

We've gotten conflicting and erroneous information since then. Up until now, the wife has been the intermediary between our county, the guy we were going to have swap out our appliances, and the gas company so what I report here is second hand, but highly credible. That said, the county requires a "Gas Line Pressure test" on the lines in the house before we can make the switch. I disconnected the propane regulator from the house, turned off the gas at each appliance's connection and filled the line with 12 pounds of air pressure. To pass, the lines need to hold 10 pounds of pressure for 15 minutes. My test failed. In ten minutes or so, the pressure gauge reads only 7 to 8 pounds. A gas guy that was recommended to us said, "That's because the shut-off valves aren't designed to hold pressure. You'll need to disconnect those lines and cap them for the test." That didn't make sense to me. Gas normally comes into the house under pressure (admittedly not 10 psi, but still under pressure) so what use would a cut-off valve be if it failed under pressure?

I've reached out to the heating and a/c company that originally installed this stuff, but have yet to hear back from them. I've no problem attempting to disassemble the pipes and cap them for everything EXCEPT the furnace, but I am at a loss to understand why the shut-off valves were designed so as to fail under pressure.

Clues, anyone?
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New The shut off valves probably just leak very slowly . . .
. . as valves tend to do. They shut off well enough for temporarily disabling an appliance, and don't leak enough to pose a danger, but a line out of service should be capped. Your gas lines have very little reserve pressure, so even a tiny leak would have a big effect.
New Thanks. Original installers are coming Friday.
When I told him what I'd heard about the cut-off switches he laughed and said they do it all the time and crank the pressure up to 30 pounds and it holds it for hours with no issues. He said I obviously had a leak, but they'd find it and repair it.

It's naturally a T & M job. But, hey, it's only money. ;0(

p.s. From what I gather, natural gas is delivered to the house at 0.25 pounds per sq. in. The "test" in our area puts pressure 40 times normal on the system. I also understand that in California, the pressure test is even higher. Which makes sense, given California's proclivity for fires. (I kid, I kid).
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New agree
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New I know this about gas
Don't fuck with it. It wants to kill you, and it's good at it.
New Well, ...
You get to be my age, you lead my life and your death wish gets pretty strong.

I also personally work on the airplane that I fly. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Believe that's called, "Eating your own dog-food" (?) :-þ
During my Saab-era, my mechanic was also-too: an aircraft mechanic.. there's no such Thing as "over-qualified" where brainz must be employed. (Had I my own aeroplane, I'd have meant to acquire similar chops; after all, it's just another internal-combustion device--only the possibilities of error are: 3-D {always stay a little-afraid..} rather than 2-D).

tl;dr ... (Moi Wants aircraft-grade folk! workin on my stuff; alas, Loren's no longer available.)

Sample: Loren + I tracked down an intermittent Starter condition: some yahoo had installed an after-market 'security' thingumbob which operated via the necessity of a slide-in tiny card (usual 'lectronic-size pieces within). It was IN SERIES-with the heftier than normal line to the starter solenoid. And the installer had used the smaller-size wiring--all the way down--ergo: the solenoid, instead of forcefully whacking its designed hi-current repository ... just sorta slid-in. As in Duh. Replace wire/shit-can the device; forget installing that spare starter motor+solenoid. A shop, I wot: would just have done the swap; it'd work OK for awhile ... again. (We both copped to the problem, just seeing the skinny wiring.)

This damn clusterfuck had nearly left me stuck in a parking lot--at near 32F--in Flagstaff late one dreary wet evening. Planning a Heads-Up to the gadget's non-engineering dept was next, a FAIL:
out-of-Business. er, QED.
New +7 ..that's a good overall-Koan for lots of 'matters' :-)
.. like say: hooking up your emergency AC-generator, filled with dead-dinosaur fuel, to your house electrics--without next killing a line-man
.. because: you didn't Kill the house-main-Switch. Add n-more.
New Having just switched gas suppliers...
Propane for propane, but we ran into the same issue. The incoming crew managed to loosen a pipe joint inside the house when they reefed on the regulator to get to the mfg. date. (Which is on the back side, FFS!)

The joint that let loose was on the steel standpipe where the appliance lines tap off from. I would suspect something like that before the shut-off valves.

Regardless of all that, the usual way to chase down a gas leak is to spray soapy water on the suspected spots. The bubbles will give the leak away.

My wife was the one present for the swap-out and she's out of town (in a cell phone dead zone...) I'll update the post with the conditions under which the pressure test was performed if I can get a hold of her.
New Thanks.
The regulator on the house slid off pretty easily (once I'd wrenched on the little propane line that tied into it) and none of the appliances had been touched prior to my "pressure test." The soap suds idea I was familiar with, but (1) I'm too lazy and (2) I don't really want to be the ONE who says, "All good here" on house gas lines for the reason Peter cited.

I *should* know where the leak is tomorrow and it *should* be fixed tomorrow as well (I have professionals scheduled to come to the house tomorrow).

Thanks again for the input!
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Good luck! Winter is not over. :)
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New Hope you kept them away from the water lines...
That was Part Deux for us. The crew managed to yank the water heater outlet pipe off-kilter while repairing the gas leak. Took 'em another three visits to finally get the water leak fixed :-/
New Solved.
As expected, had *nothing* to do with shut-off valves. Two elbows and one three-way connector were leaking. Just got a call from the wife who said that it was all fixed and holding pressure. Tomorrow I'll be staying home to wait for the County Inspector. Then, two days later we *should* be scheduled for gas meter placement and connection. After that, have the furnace re-worked and the new stove, dryer and water heater installed. The delay is going to be the gas company. I'm really hoping this all gets done by the 21st when the kids get home.

Thanks all for the input!
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Woot!
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New Coleridge? /edited: "Drip, drip drip on My cold grey stones oh /Sea malignant old pipes.."
     Anybody know anything about home gas lines? - (mmoffitt) - (14)
         The shut off valves probably just leak very slowly . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
             Thanks. Original installers are coming Friday. - (mmoffitt)
             agree -NT - (boxley)
         I know this about gas - (pwhysall) - (3)
             Well, ... - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                 Believe that's called, "Eating your own dog-food" (?) :-þ - (Ashton)
             +7 ..that's a good overall-Koan for lots of 'matters' :-) - (Ashton)
         Having just switched gas suppliers... - (scoenye) - (3)
             Thanks. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                 Good luck! Winter is not over. :) -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                 Hope you kept them away from the water lines... - (scoenye)
         Solved. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
             Woot! -NT - (a6l6e6x)
             Coleridge? /edited: "Drip, drip drip on My cold grey stones oh /Sea malignant old pipes.." -NT - (Ashton)

China?
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