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New I'd call "Ending a Monarchy" a pretty big real change. YMMV.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New How so?
Franklin and Washington and lots and lots of the Founders were extremely wealthy men.

Women couldn't vote.

Blacks were enslaved.

People who didn't own land couldn't vote.

Rich white guys were running the show before the Revolution.

Rich white guys were running the show after the Revolution.

Americans had elected representatives before the Revolution.

Americans had elected representatives after the Revolution.

Etc.

Don't get me wrong - the American Revolution was a Big Deal™. But holding it up as an example of Real Change™ is arguing semantics.

Politics change, what's politically possible changes, progress is incremental.

Refusing to accept important incremental progress because it doesn't go far - when the alternative is nothing - is shooting yourself (and those below you in the social strata) in the foot.

Purity kills.

Cheers,
Scott.
New And incremental change poses no threat to your status, right? That's really why it''s better, no?
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New (sigh)
I'm not a 1%er who only hangs out with other 1%ers and lives in a gated compound.

Life is much better for me when kids I encounter are happy and see a bright future for themselves and I don't have to worry about whether they're stoned on "bath salts" and "crocodile" and meth and will mug me for my phone and credit cards. Kids with too much time on their hands (un- and under-employed, not in school, etc.) are too often a threat to themselves, their future, and society in general.

Life is much better for me when the transportation system works efficiently and I don't have to worry about choking to death in a smoke-filled tunnel. Cars stuck in traffic damage the environment as well.

Life is much better for me when I can make economic decisions about changing jobs based on something more than "will I have health insurance at all"?

Etc.

I'm willing to lose a tiny bit of relative status - via higher taxes - to pay for those things. That is an excellent trade in my eyes. And that has almost nothing to do with the reality that progress is incremental.

It's the 1%ers who aren't willing to give up any status. You know this.

Your fantasy of some Glorious Second American Revolution that will [missing step 2] and then we'll all live in Paradise Society [except for the Clintons and any previous member of the DLC] is a just a fantasy. It's far, far more likely that the 1%ers will still be on top after the GSAR than the other way around. I'm not going to be losing my private plane when the GSAR comes.

The Founding Fathers were rich white guys....

Meet the new boss; same as the old boss....

You know all this.

Cheers,
Scott.
     For $DEITY's sake! No. Just ... NO. - (mmoffitt) - (35)
         Surely, like the Koch brothers, there's a way to do it under the table. - (a6l6e6x) - (7)
             Indeed. The worst sort of taint. She lost to Drumpf! -NT - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                 Not to mention meetings on tarmac. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                     And I hear that she maybe didn't pay a tip once, also too. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                         It allowed for the worst of interpretations. - (a6l6e6x) - (3)
                             They made crap up about her (and just about every other elected Democrat). - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                 Powerful, persuasive, appealing, one outta 3 ain't bad -NT - (boxley)
                                 She's good at making women in politics powerful? How? Through wedlock? - (mmoffitt)
         Yeah, I mean, like... - (Another Scott) - (1)
             ROFL! - (mmoffitt)
         You and boxley should form a support group. -NT - (rcareaga) - (24)
             yeah, support anybody but clinton group :-) -NT - (boxley) - (23)
                 This country would be far better off today - (rcareaga) - (22)
                     You may be wrong . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                     Nit. s/far better/incrementally better. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (20)
                         A large increment :-P -NT - (drook) - (19)
                             Real change doesn't come incrementally. TFP. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (18)
                                 Actual Progress is Always Incremental. - (Another Scott) - (17)
                                     These fifteen [crash] ... Ten ... These ten commandments ... -NT - (drook)
                                     Some counter-examples to your argument. - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                                         Meh. I doubt that American slaves would say that the Revolution was "real change"... - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                             I'd call "Ending a Monarchy" a pretty big real change. YMMV. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                 How so? - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                     And incremental change poses no threat to your status, right? That's really why it''s better, no? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                         (sigh) - (Another Scott)
                                         The American "Revolution" - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                             I don't have any illusions about the American Revolution, but see one-liner above. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                         So was dumping Ukraine’s Putin stooge Yanukovitch that you thought was undemocratic at the time -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (7)
                                             And which country colluded and fake news and funded that action? -NT - (boxley)
                                             ignore dupe -NT - (boxley) - (5)
                                                 Who's he dupe we're supposed to ignore? - (Andrew Grygus) - (4)
                                                     not me, reading page 613 family circle cookbook. Have a box of apples and am too cheap - (boxley) - (3)
                                                         Crusts are easy - (drook) - (2)
                                                             Nice. My grandfather taught me the 2 knives trick (but he used table knives). -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                             Hey, I have that book! -NT - (boxley)

Remember, rank times IQ is a constant.
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