A great quote and some more stuff...

Post #42,188 by screamer 6/13/02 10:53:16 AM Reply	A great quote and some more stuff... "I have the greatest admiration for your propaganda. Propaganda in the West is carried out by experts who have had the best training in the world -- in the field of advertizing -- and have mastered the techniques with exceptional proficiency ... Yours are subtle and persuasive; ours are crude and obvious ... I think that the fundamental difference between our worlds, with respect to propaganda, is quite simple. You tend to believe yours ... and we tend to disbelieve ours." Soviet correspondent based five years in the U.S. I think that [link\|http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/ThereAreLies.html\|this essay,] is pretty interesting. It has kind of changed the way I think about the Lewinsky Affair... I like the concept of moral proportion, perhaps the media and pop culture got me too... Just a few thoughts, Screamer There's nothing in the streets Looks any different to me And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye And the parting on the left Are now parting on the right And the beards have all grown longer overnight P. Townshend - Won't Get Fooled Again
Post #42,223 by Brandioch 6/13/02 1:12:32 PM Reply	"Moral" proportion. I hate to be the one to break it to you but KILLING is not immoral. Sex is. If you have a film showing a bunch of murders, will it have an "R" or an "X"? If you have a film showing sex, will it have an "R" or and "X"?
Post #42,251 by boxley 6/13/02 3:30:09 PM Reply	killing is ammoral murder is immoral TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #42,256 by Brandioch 6/13/02 4:09:39 PM Reply	Killing, murder, vigilantism, human sacrifice, sex. Which depictions will earn you an "R" and which will earn you an "X"? :) What about killing someone who "deserves" it but hasn't killed anyone yet. Say someone who just ruins people's lives? I was going for a complete list of terms. How many different terms are there for ending someone's life under specific circumstances.
Post #42,347 by boxley 6/14/02 10:40:12 AM Reply	hes a poet and didnt know it :) It doesnt matter how you rate the movies as rating movies is about comfort levels of the movie watchers not about morals. Do I feel more comfortable discussing how to throw a tomahawk while watching the Patriot with my ten year old than explaining anal intercourse while watching bun busters? Easier to discuss killing and the hows, whys and whens. I suspect that many other folks feel the same way. The rating system sez if it is X expect sex. If it is R expect T&A and a shooting or two all in good fun. Doesnt have anything to do with morality. If you remember last tango in paris was going to get an X so they ran it unrated. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #42,350 by inthane-chan 6/14/02 11:48:01 AM Reply	Gotta wonder though... ...is the ease of conversation about violence versus sex a natural product, or a cultural one? InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
Post #42,357 by Brandioch 6/14/02 1:19:51 PM Reply	Comfort and morals. But is there any other "moral" subject that you would feel uncomfortable discussing with you children? Theft? Murder? Lies? And so on. Sex is the LAST "moral" subject in the US. That is because, in the US, so much sex is "immoral" to us. Sex is so bad that we can't even depict "good" sex (between a married couple of the correct genders) without an "X" rating (only adults allowed to watch and bear the social stigma of watching "porno"). Aside from sex, is there ANYTHING that can't be shown during prime time? Or depicted in a comic book sold to children? We will accept ANY other depiction of any other act as "okay". Scary, isn't it?
Post #42,387 by Ashton 6/14/02 5:29:53 PM Reply	When the Only thing you really Fear is sex itself: imagine all the real Shit you will accept, allow entrepreneurs to sell to your kid - and vicariously 'experience' yourself. (While calling that-all, 'Fun') I wonder how Many game- AK-47 rounds have been fired by the average current kid, by the time he reaches 8th grade (?) Of course too - that couldn't have any effect upon his psyche at all. What's a psyche? Er is that made by Mattel? GI Joe? Nintendo? Ashton
Post #42,459 by boxley 6/16/02 10:03:18 AM Reply	not moral, comfort level I do speak to my kids about sex. I just have the same uncomfortable feling watching sex acts being depicted on the screen with them as I would watching the last few 15 minutes of Apocalypse Now at a Peta convention. Wrong audience to enjoy the flic with. Not a morals thing at all. Ever watch a porn flic at a house with an audience of mostly women?, can get rather brutal. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #42,467 by Brandioch 6/16/02 12:57:42 PM Reply	One problem with your allegory. I just have the same uncomfortable feling watching sex acts being depicted on the screen with them as I would watching the last few 15 minutes of Apocalypse Now at a Peta convention. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. While ethics may not be morals (exactly), the concept is the same. People are more "comfortable" with graphic depictions of death and violence than with sex. I say this is due to sex being more of a moral issue for us than killing is.
Post #42,527 by Ashton 6/16/02 10:10:16 PM Reply	Yes, it is our Puritan subliminal heritage. *God against Nature. God against Man. Nature against Man. Man 'against' Nature! Technology to tame, suppress, subdue! 'Nature': we chose our Gods in Our Image of what was most fearful to 'us', so as to construct an Authority, relieving us of the angst of being Alive. Too many choices.. seemed like 'the thing to do at the time', back in the Dark Ages, I guess.. * someone's observation re Chistianity (with the concluding comment ...funny religion!). One might as well add in the other forks, as derive from the same fearful view of It All. What does it mean that, repeated plots with graphic-color piles of heaped dead bodies = Good fare for the little and Big tykes too, to immerse selves in as 'recreation' (and for the little ones: inculcation of er Valuez) - but human sexual intercourse is Bad? Rest case. Belive we ARE a 'Case' to be studied by sentient beings, should we ever encounter some... before we turn out the lights, that is.
Post #42,544 by Brandioch 6/17/02 12:31:26 AM Reply	I'm just wondering...... What would our society be like if those were reversed? If it was a taboo to show people being killed and parents were uncomfortable with discussing the subject -and- They weren't uncomfortable with discussing sex as an intimate affection? Well, for one thing, Nintendo and PlayStation games would be a LOT different.
Post #42,605 by screamer 6/17/02 11:38:10 AM Reply	We could replace GI Joe... with Bend Over Barbie and Homo Joe... (Please note: I do not mean to offend anyone, it was a cheap rhyme!!!) It's reminding me of an old George Carlin routine where he talks about much the same issue and goes into a skit about substituting the word f&k for kill in a lot of movies... "F&k the ump, f&k the ump"... "Okay, Lester, we're gonna f&k you now, but we're gonna do it real slow." :-) I understand and agree with you point and have been making it for a long time. I don't know how we got so screwed up with our priorities. I think Bill is hitting on a big part of it with the "comfort level" of the adults in the equation, but I can't, for the life of me, understand why we could feel comfortable talking about death (try explaining to a 2 year old about where Grandpa went... You'll get a good feel for where the concept of "heaven" comes in handy) or especially senseless killing for entertainment. I understand the discomfort of discussing sex with kids in this culture, I don't understand the lack of discomfort discussing violence and murder... We need to put it back on society's To Do list, n'est ce pas? Just a few thoughts, Screamer There's nothing in the streets Looks any different to me And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye And the parting on the left Are now parting on the right And the beards have all grown longer overnight P. Townshend - Won't Get Fooled Again
Post #42,609 by boxley 6/17/02 12:04:32 PM Reply	point = missed ? Have you seen the last 15 minutes of apocolyse now? thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #42,625 by Brandioch 6/17/02 1:41:00 PM Reply	You mean where they slaughter the ox-thing? And he's recreating that as he kills Colonel Kurtz? And then he walks out, covered in blood? We train young men to drop fire on people but their commanders won't allow them to write 'FUCK' on their airplanes because it's obscene. Yeah. I know those scenes.
Post #42,629 by boxley 6/17/02 2:20:10 PM Reply	just making sure TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS

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