Paid little attention to such as these, alas

Post #420,226 by Ashton 9/8/17 4:27:33 PM 9/8/17 4:27:33 PM Reply	Paid little attention to such as these, alas The Brit. 'LE Velocette' (a gutless, ride to work in bizness-suit transport) exemplified the engr. advantages of Liquid- -vs- Air- cooling (efficiency, quietude (!!) and longevity) as always appealed. IF.. you could pare-dowm the weight-penalty of such bits as radiator, water pump etc. My Ideal clean-sheet-design-pad always was: Make It Light .. so. that. you CAN er MAN-handle the sucker with alacrity, in those priceless mSeconds averting The Unpleasantness at the Belona Club kinda thing. :-) Say, 275# Max?? Still, ya just aren't likely--pre-ELECTRICS--to achieve [bike + Rider!] Pounds per H.P. for High-Gs-Zoooom! ..while trying to fit This design rule. Hey, I didn't say it would be Easy. ...awaiting the Tesla 150 HP Unter-lightweight-via-some-Polymer battery made of 100% Fluff. 0-100 mph and STOPPED in say 12 sec? GET ON IT!!
Post #420,227 by drook 9/8/17 5:09:20 PM 9/8/17 5:09:20 PM Reply	My RD 350 didn't even meet your weight limit And that thing was pretty minimal. -- Drew
Post #420,228 by Ashton 9/8/17 5:47:09 PM 9/8/17 5:47:09 PM Reply	Heh-squared :-) For my then-S.O. I purchased a new Yellow! '70 RD-250 (IIRC its model) because, assuredly she did not need to strive for --> Zoooomitude! y'know? RD-350 == overkill, that was fershure. I can't recall my impressions in test-ride of that machine.. obv. it passed the test.. I deemed that RD-250 wasn't a "too-short-wheel-base" Killer like: whatever they called The Triples, wayback(?) It Was however, entirely powerful-enough to get any witless-tyro into Trouble, and I don't recall thinking.. say.. "Hmm this thing handles 'Superbly!", meaning, it was OK but not to-Die-for/umm, Bad analogy.. Concluded that I would not be killing-off My Lovely with a machine powerful-enough to BE deadly (except via unwisest Ego-error of its pilot; there's no Insurance against that (!) (If that makes sufficient sense.) She did manage to drop the plot once, get a 'dueling-scar' on cheek, but that was just Learning-stuff; both she/machine survived the pairing :-) Pass-storming in the Sierras: 3 bikes; two females + moi (on H. 500-Four) ... sleeping-bags under The Milky Way and like that. Bliss.. Carrion Don't let your bike Lead you to That..
Post #420,231 by drook 9/8/17 6:51:54 PM 9/8/17 6:51:54 PM Reply	The 350 was more than enough for a noob They were really tail-heavy; you could get the front end airborne in most of the first 2 gears. I only did it by accident once, merging into traffic with a passenger holding on tight. -- Drew
Post #420,230 by static 9/8/17 6:21:12 PM 9/8/17 6:21:12 PM Reply	Going electric. I doubt Tesla will be interested in electric motorcycles any time soon, as there are a number of other people already playing in that space. And Tesla are focussed on cars at the moment. According to Wikipedia, the main problem with electric motorcycles is range - 140 miles is considered long range. But electric cars have the same problem. Although Tesla have set their sights on lithium-ion for batteries, other technology is coming online that will be competitive and it will probably get a foothold in electric motorcycles. Mention was made earlier in the thread about the sound. That's something us humans have learnt. And will likely have to unlearn as we shift away from engines driven by exploding hydrocarbons to engines driven by electromotive force. The world is too noisy anyway... Wade.
Post #420,232 by Ashton 9/8/17 8:03:49 PM 9/8/17 8:03:49 PM Reply	All good points. Battery life? Can envision, for the occasional long trip: Temp panniers'-with-power such as place that mass low-down ie. Not up around saddle-height! etc. Handling won't be improved with any added weight natch but: Point of 'long range' seems to be: you don't need the handling finesse of recreational swervery when focussed on er, a 350ish mile trek from A --> B. I suspect that much still needs sorting-out (perhaps via some sort of partially-slipping clutch during power application ??) so as to mimic the sensibilities already residing in muscle-memory about handling, occasiionally controlled RW-sliding and such (Racers: 2-wheel drifts! but we won't Go there.) Sound! "We' have yet to begin sorting that out . For the disabled and to alert All: SOUNDlessness KIlls; methinks that -->soon there ought to be some characteristic sound sig for various electrics of any config: loud enough (only externally) to sanely face the issue. Distinct to indicate cycle? car, truck and such. I cringe whenever encountering a BLOODY-silent Prius, for EX. (Above is to save animals as well, so they can evade yet another feckless human+machine.)
Post #420,238 by Another Scott 9/9/17 2:02:38 AM 9/9/17 2:02:38 AM Reply	I assume until there are breakthroughs... Electric bikes with decent ranges will be variations on something like this: I remember seeing one of those shortly after they came out. Looks like a great (fair weather) commuting vehicle. But quite spendy in the gas version ($10k in 2013). Cheers, Scott.
Post #420,245 by malraux 9/9/17 10:36:45 AM 9/9/17 10:36:45 AM Reply	Fair weather is the rub. Not really a goer up here. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #420,250 by Ashton 9/9/17 9:20:38 PM 9/9/17 9:20:38 PM Reply	Has a conceptual C.G. problem, alas. (Yes I quite remember the [-]s of the gorgeous Lambretta) scooter-with faired-in gadgetry: tiny wheels, etc.) My first New machine, post- Whizzer moto-bike. 'Decent range' might appear in such designs as above, agreed. But One needs Large wheels aka (actual dia. != misleading er, Tyre-sizes. ..not to mention the picky geometries of fork rake/trail, axle-height-above-ground + other subtleties. Simple focus: You.. able to move about (occasionally even partly-stand a bit, moving your weight-locus down to foot-pegs (while you cannot "compress-down"! much!) plus Machine static CG determines the road manners + ballistics. You thus alter the ∑CG (and will need to..) Just observe the commonality of sizes/placements on Any serious expen$ive Racers to note how these shapes converge. Your pic looks Purty but.. [see above, where the Rubber meets the Road]. I wot that: Language + studies of Newton, basic mech. engineering etc. all have their places, but Simply, I see no substitute for a course in Lessons-learned at-speed, and on a variety of 'models' as you can lay hands+feet on, to derive any useful guesstimate of where any next actual-Improvements might lie. My compressed recipe is ~~ [unlikely to convert anyone] It's quite non-algorithm-able, this [Problem of Man + Machine] at lethal velocities. e.g. Can recall a borrowed Velocette small single: execrable power-unit, torque, Noise etc. BUT.. It was light! w/ Lovely frame/suspension design as inspired confidence to try damn-near Anything. (This you test with Engine Off!, a "coaster race" down say, "O'Shaughnessy Ave in S.F. !?) No torque available to SYA, y'see? Ya gots only brakes + road-cuth. You can learn Lots. Or drop the plot ez. {{sigh}} Nope, no magic clean-sheet of Paper I've ever seen: worked first try. (The awfulness of certain scooter-like devices, esp. in any evasive maneuvers: Experienced! Once ... tells one more than any 'analysis paralysis' can. Sure, New! and Better incremental designs Will occur next (too) but my overall ∑ View is that Truly those [++]s come about via ART. Which we must count on for lots of matters, Right? Vroooom ----> ... but on a New thing? Stay focussed and anticipate {the unExpected}, while wearing leathers, nice helmet/gloves and humility :-) [Geoff Duke, John Surtees You Ain't]
Post #420,255 by Another Scott 9/10/17 10:34:42 AM 9/10/17 10:34:42 AM Reply	Good points. I dunno enough about all the issues, but that general layout seems to have several examples (including from BMW and Suzuki). They're much bigger than the empty bike looks. 100 mph top speed is plenty. Presumably being able to stash battery cells almost anywhere would give more flexibility on the CG than having an IC engine. And the people wouldn't have to sit so high if a huge covered carrying capacity wasn't needed. But it will never handle like something like this... ;-) An electric version of something like those Honda, Suzuki, or BMW scooters would seem to make a lot of sense for commuting in dense urban areas. A lot more sense than self-driving cars... ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #420,280 by Ashton 9/11/17 6:39:03 PM 9/11/17 6:39:03 PM Reply	PS.. re that top pic Just CAN'T let that color-glossy sit there un-disparaged, y'know? Red-flag.. WRONG is: Exactly (in height) ---> where this pair-of-butts sit: -vs- The C.G. of all the gearhead-bits, way-too-far_below.. There; you are on STILTS! Especially-awful with Two-Up. (Passenger if unskilled is dead-weight; cannot even Try to 'help'.) Needs no words; The pic all-alone suggests well, the Difficulties a pilot Will endure/(or not survive) with any need for a rapid maneuver. (And look well at the height! of your boot-soles!) == lowest-point you Can place your body-weight to influence matters, i.e. Because, also too the wheels are too-Small dia. for rest of chassis {sigh} Cornering demands here, as with a scooter, needs road-clearance == why they had-to place foot-rests ^where^ they did. :-/ You just Can't! use your body as you Need-to, to ameliorate [Your + machine's] combined C.G. (thus to apply physics to S. Y. A.) {{sob}} Rest case. Racer pic below: illustrates the shape-map for function: just torn-up by Boobus Marketus. Std. Advertainment-pulchritude fantasy OVER all hard-won authentic-lore to date. Yeah they likely will peddle n of these. I hope to Drumpf voters (as would never notice 'science'.) Just like glamorous Giant-'Hog' Ad-pix of Harleys, old Indian Chiefs ..with about same %mass given-over to sexy-sheet-metal cosmetic shapes ..as-in Detroit-iron of the days of Insolent/Heavy Chariots -vs- [all aspects of Basic design-physics] You can get away with that in 4-wheelers.. sorta, but NOT with 2-wheel-equilibrium! (I'd likely drive one of these around the block. Carefully. I drove a foot-clutch Harley.. Once.)
Post #420,282 by boxley 9/11/17 7:07:28 PM 9/11/17 7:08:04 PM Reply	ignore, forgot the link "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman Edited by boxley Sept. 11, 2017, 07:08:04 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #420,283 by boxley 9/11/17 7:07:38 PM 9/11/17 7:07:38 PM Reply	put a battery in one of these I would be interested http://www.polaris.com/en-us/slingshot "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #420,285 by drook 9/11/17 7:55:17 PM 9/11/17 7:55:17 PM Reply	I don't understand those They're not motorcycles. They aren't weatherproof. I can't think of a use case that something else isn't a better choice. -- Drew
Post #420,286 by Another Scott 9/11/17 10:07:03 PM 9/11/17 10:07:03 PM Reply	They're 3-wheel go-carts. For adults.
Post #420,290 by scoenye 9/11/17 11:06:05 PM 9/11/17 11:06:05 PM Reply	It is an opening for those not/no longer comfortable on two wheels but for whom a convertible is too "square". Trike conversions have existed for a very long time. Having the two wheels up front eliminates the differential problem and the Slingshot opens the market wider by having a steering wheel.
Post #420,309 by static 9/13/17 2:55:54 AM 9/13/17 2:55:54 AM Reply	People still buy 'em. BAC, Ariel and Caterham (and likely others) have four-wheel cars like that and they seem to be successful. There was a memorably Top Gear challenge where the hosts got to use some of these cars in daily driving. Except it rained that day. :-) Wade.
Post #420,306 by a6l6e6x 9/12/17 5:03:07 PM 9/12/17 5:03:08 PM Reply	Highway police bait! :) Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #420,288 by Another Scott 9/11/17 10:26:53 PM 9/11/17 10:26:53 PM Reply	Good points, but... I envision them being used for commuting on urban interstates, 35 MPH roads, etc. Not tooling down the PCH or cutting through the Alps on a beautiful summer day. At least that is what I would use it for. The guy I saw on a red Honda version a few years ago must have been around 70. Energica EVA electric superbike. 617#, 124 mph top speed, 50-60 mile range when whooping it up, $35k+. :-/ It's got a ways to go yet. But it's good that people are trying! Cheers, Scott.
Post #420,257 by drook 9/10/17 11:03:20 AM 9/10/17 11:03:20 AM Reply	Tesla isn't just focused on cars They're looking to take over the trucking industry. -- Drew
Post #420,259 by Another Scott 9/10/17 12:08:47 PM 9/10/17 12:08:47 PM Reply	And home power, etc., etc. PowerWall. I think Elon's just throwing money and memes everywhere, to see what sticks. The Hyperloop is an interesting engineering exercise, but it'll be a boondoggle if anyone tries to to actually build one. (This isn't to minimize what he has accomplished, but he's yet to actually show he has a sustainable business model.) It's easy to see that electric transportation and distributed power is the future, but "first movers" are rarely the ones that win (look at Apple). "The exception proves the rule" though... Cheers, Scott.
Post #420,284 by scoenye 9/11/17 7:45:59 PM 9/11/17 7:45:59 PM Reply	Some are trying, though :-) http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/ducati/ducati-desmosedici-stradale-v-4-engine-revealed.html The output numbers are in silly territory. And it definitely sings to its own tune,
Post #420,287 by Another Scott 9/11/17 10:12:26 PM 9/11/17 10:12:26 PM Reply	That's nuts! Wow. Thanks.

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