Thanks for the pointer.

Post #415,476 by Another Scott 11/14/16 2:48:50 PM 11/14/16 2:48:50 PM Reply	Thanks for the pointer. It's a good, thought-provoking essay. But, man, the brush he uses is so very broad... And liberal politics doesn't exist in a vacuum. Were's the counter-point of the GOP and the press demonizing Hillary for 30+ years? The counter-example, that he mentions briefly, is Obama. I don't think I've ever seen a national politician with more empathy. He can put himself in anyone's shoes - even those who hate him - better than anyone. He's the Anti-Smug. It didn't help soften his opposition by the GOP - it was ramped up 100 fold instead. Obama's empathy didn't matter. The supposedly monolithic WWC hated him and all he stood for anyway. There's a place for empathy and talking together. But these "smug liberals" he's railing against have much, much less power than Rensin would lead us to believe. It would be good to see him do a similar essay on the Teabaggers... (Maybe he has - I haven't looked.) Three states, and less than 100,000 votes, determined the outcome of the election. I'm not willing to throw up my hands and say we were too smug and we have too much disdain for the working class (including the WWC, including the male WWC). Yes, blaming the voters is stupid and counter-productive. But let's be smart about the conclusions we draw from Tuesday's results. My $0.02. Thanks again. Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,477 by boxley 11/14/16 5:04:28 PM 11/14/16 5:04:28 PM Reply	the guy that told white folks to get to the back of the bus isnt smug? the god and guns guy? maybe it was distain and not smug, I dont know. always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,479 by rcareaga 11/14/16 6:30:53 PM 11/14/16 6:30:53 PM Reply	To whom do you refer? I have a feeling I know, but please to go on record.
Post #415,481 by boxley 11/14/16 6:37:37 PM 11/14/16 6:37:37 PM Reply	Re: To whom do you refer? "They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back." and dont twaddle about the GOP since y'all claim they are angry white racists http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-to-gop-%e2%80%98they-can-come-for-the-ride-but-they-have-to-sit-in-back/ is that smug or disdain? always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,482 by rcareaga 11/14/16 7:29:27 PM 11/14/16 7:29:27 PM Reply	Re: To whom do you refer? I look in vain for a reference to "white folks" in the quoted sentences. But I can't hear the voices in your head that tell you what Obama really meant.
Post #415,484 by crazy 11/14/16 9:33:41 PM 11/14/16 9:33:41 PM Reply	Well, the article (not the quote) does say it, at least close But even I can quickly visualize it based on the actual quote. It is talking about non middle class GOP members, of which the vast majority are old white people.
Post #415,485 by rcareaga 11/14/16 9:43:25 PM 11/14/16 9:43:25 PM Reply	from the context... I make it GOP officeholders. But as I said, I lack boxley's keen hallucinatory insights.
Post #415,488 by boxley 11/14/16 9:51:17 PM 11/14/16 9:51:17 PM Reply	Re: from the context... yeah, from the context all right. So who used to be on the back of the bus? Circa 1950's in the south it was republicans. It was very clear what he meant and he used the "out of context, I really meant republicans in the congress and senate" get out of jail free card. Every black person in america and some of us whites got that. always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,489 by rcareaga 11/14/16 11:46:16 PM 11/14/16 11:46:16 PM Reply	As I said, hallucinatory.
Post #415,494 by boxley 11/15/16 10:36:58 AM 11/15/16 10:36:58 AM Reply	ask a black person what it meant always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,490 by Another Scott 11/15/16 12:17:24 AM 11/15/16 12:17:24 AM Reply	MediaMatters. http://politicalcorrection.org/factcheck/201010310007 - quoting Obama Look, I've been using this analogy as I travel the country. Imagine the Republicans driving the economy into a ditch. And it's a deep ditch. It's a big ditch. And somehow they walked away from the accident, and we put on our boots and we rappelled down into the ditch -- me and Jack and Sheldon and Jim and Patrick. We've been pushing, pushing, trying to get that car out of the ditch. And meanwhile, the Republicans are standing there, sipping on a Slurpee. (Laughter.) Fanning themselves. We're hot and sweaty and pushing, and they're kicking dirt into the ditch. (Laughter.) Getting it into our faces. But that's okay. We said -- every once in a while we'd ask them, "Do you want to come down and help?" They'd say, "No, but you're not pushing the right way, though. Push harder." Finally, we get this car out of the ditch, and it's banged up. It needs some body work, needs a tune-up. But it's pointing in the right direction. The engine is turning and it's ready to go. And we suddenly get this tap on our shoulders. We look back, who is it? The Republicans. And they're saying, "Excuse me, we want the keys back." You can't have the keys back. You don't know how to drive! (Applause.) You can't have them back. Can't do it. (Applause.) Not after we've worked this hard. We can't have special interests sitting shotgun. (Laughter.) You know, we got to have middle-class families up in front. (Applause.) We can't -- we don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they got to sit in back. (Laughter.) Look, these two years have been incredibly difficult. And not every decision we've made has always been popular, but they've been the right things to do because you sent me there -- you sent me there not to do what was easy but do what was right. That's why you sent me there. (Applause.) HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,492 by rcareaga 11/15/16 9:37:41 AM 11/15/16 9:37:41 AM Reply	Obviously contempt for white folk Thanks for the fuller context, Scott. Wonder why box and his source didn't feel like providing that? Oh, wait. cordially,
Post #415,495 by boxley 11/15/16 10:38:35 AM 11/15/16 10:42:03 AM Reply	sorry mediamatters is not a valid site for anything. It is no better than the wnd site for facts That's a Glenn Beck-inspired race-baiting twist on Obama's months-old metaphor from the same article, then it proceeds to twiat a republicans words then meanders into wholesale bullshit about what the president meant he said. always look out for number one and don't step in number two Edited by boxley Nov. 15, 2016, 10:42:03 AM EST Expand All History
Post #415,496 by Another Scott 11/15/16 10:41:07 AM 11/15/16 10:41:07 AM Reply	Yeah, full quotes in context is bad. Touche'. ;-p
Post #415,497 by boxley 11/15/16 10:42:51 AM 11/15/16 10:42:51 AM Reply	too bad it wasnt, it was what they claimed he said always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,498 by Another Scott 11/15/16 12:31:48 PM 11/15/16 12:31:48 PM Reply	He's told the same anecdote/story many times. That seems to be the exact quote used in your link...
Post #415,505 by mmoffitt 11/16/16 8:13:33 AM 11/16/16 8:13:33 AM Reply	Those "smug liberals" gave you HRC. How'd that work out for you? bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,506 by Another Scott 11/16/16 9:37:12 AM 11/16/16 9:37:12 AM Reply	Hillary won the primary with millions more votes than St. Bernard. HTH. Too bad democracy is so horrible, eh? Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,507 by boxley 11/16/16 9:38:44 AM 11/16/16 9:38:44 AM Reply	she sure did,so did taft back in the day always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,508 by Another Scott 11/16/16 9:42:38 AM 11/16/16 9:42:38 AM Reply	And? What's the alternative? Pick the person that the majority of people voting in the party process didn't want? Continuing to argue about Hillary isn't going to fix anything that Trump's Minions are trying to do... Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,509 by boxley 11/16/16 10:18:49 AM 11/16/16 10:18:49 AM Reply	your bewailing the clinton loss isnt going to fix trump either If you are over it I am over it glad twitter booted alt right. Twitter is a medium not the message, asshats do not get a free ride, they can start their own company call it fucker and offer free sign ups always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,510 by drook 11/16/16 10:29:03 AM 11/16/16 10:29:03 AM Reply	Twitter did what now? -- Drew
Post #415,511 by boxley 11/16/16 10:41:58 AM 11/16/16 10:41:58 AM Reply	Re: Twitter did what now? http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2016/11/15/twitter-suspends-alt-right-accounts/93943194/ always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,512 by drook 11/16/16 10:47:54 AM 11/16/16 10:47:54 AM Reply	Spectacular timing -- Drew
Post #415,523 by mmoffitt 11/16/16 8:26:36 PM 11/16/16 8:26:36 PM Reply	How many? http://www.inquisitr.com/3207171/election-fraud-study-points-to-rigged-democratic-primary-against-bernie-sanders-video/ It doesn't matter who votes. It's who counts the votes that matters. And yes, that is horrible. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,524 by boxley 11/16/16 8:48:25 PM 11/16/16 8:48:25 PM Reply	and dont forget the illegals and the dead who voted in the general always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,528 by Another Scott 11/16/16 10:37:43 PM 11/16/16 10:37:43 PM Reply	True believer writes true-believer opinion piece. OTOH... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton_us_577d51c0e4b0c590f7e7a3ec Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) admitted presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton won the primary, but hesitated to admit his time in the race is over. CNN host Wolf Blitzer asked Sanders about the race. “She won fair and square, right?” Blitzer asked. “Yep,” Sanders replied, before arguing his campaign is still politically important. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,535 by crazy 11/17/16 7:34:27 AM 11/17/16 7:34:27 AM Reply	That was July 6 And on July 22 the Democratic email dump made clear that it wasn't "fair and square". So pointing out what Bernie believed at the time with limited information really isn't relevant.
Post #415,536 by Another Scott 11/17/16 10:17:41 AM 11/17/16 10:17:41 AM Reply	Yet he was "vigorously" campaigning for her in September... http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/09/30/bernie-sanders-step-up-campaign-schedule-hillary-clinton/91342564/ Sen. Bernie Sanders is about to start tearing up the campaign trail. The Vermont independent will campaign for Hillary Clinton in the battleground states of Iowa and Minnesota on Monday and Tuesday, and appearances elsewhere are in the works. “He’s talking about traveling all over the country to help Secretary Clinton," Sanders spokesman Michael Briggs said Friday, adding that Sanders also will help other candidates and discuss ballot issues he cares about. Sanders spent most of August writing a book but has since campaigned for Clinton in Ohio (once) and New Hampshire (twice). An event Wednesday in the Granite State was the first joint appearance for Sanders and Clinton since he endorsed her in July. The event aimed to win more support for Clinton from millennials who supported Sanders in the primaries. Clinton is underperforming among young adults, a significant percentage of whom have turned to third-party candidates. Usually when one feels cheated, one doesn't work to elect the cheater. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,540 by crazy 11/17/16 12:42:06 PM 11/17/16 12:42:06 PM Reply	He made a simple decision Trump or her. Far lesser of 2 evils. I admire him for it. And he is a politician, which means he knows when to keep his mouth shut if it means furthering his own agenda, no matter how cheated be may feel.
Post #415,541 by Another Scott 11/17/16 12:46:54 PM 11/17/16 12:46:54 PM Reply	And yet too many of Bernie's supporters couldn't make the same calculation. Curious. :-(
Post #415,543 by crazy 11/17/16 2:40:02 PM 11/17/16 2:40:02 PM Reply	They are not politicians Average people throw hissy fits. The saying "cut off nose to spite his face" apply to most people, not just the exceptionionally stupid. A very small subset of the population are truly logical. Nothing curious about it.
Post #415,544 by Andrew Grygus 11/17/16 3:38:00 PM 11/17/16 3:38:00 PM Reply	No, they are morons - just like Trump voters.
Post #415,570 by mmoffitt 11/21/16 8:24:09 AM 11/21/16 8:24:09 AM Reply	Or live in a place where a vote doesn't matter. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,572 by Another Scott 11/21/16 9:59:04 AM 11/21/16 9:59:04 AM Reply	Votes always matter. They're precious and shouldn't be thrown away.
Post #415,576 by mmoffitt 11/21/16 12:58:17 PM 11/21/16 12:58:17 PM Reply	Voting for HRC in Indiana in 2016 is the essence of throwing one's vote away. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,579 by Another Scott 11/21/16 1:48:15 PM 11/21/16 1:48:15 PM Reply	Things don't change until they do. Every vote matters.
Post #415,581 by mmoffitt 11/21/16 3:18:11 PM 11/21/16 3:18:11 PM Reply	Nonsense. The Democratic Candidate losing Indiana in the general was a fait accompli. Exactly as I predicted. Although if the youth can still manage to trust our political system enough to participate after the betrayal of Obama, then Indiana could go for the Democratic candidate again as it did in 2008. But that would be if and only if Bernie is the candidate. ... Clinton has about as much chance of carrying Indiana as she does of getting my vote in the primary. http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/406870/ bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,583 by Another Scott 11/21/16 3:40:12 PM 11/21/16 3:40:12 PM Reply	Meh. Yes, the polling said she wasn't going to win IN and she didn't. Congratulations. That doesn't mean that people shouldn't have voted for her. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Indiana,_2008#Polling Pre-election polling was always tight, although McCain generally had a slight lead in 3 poll averages throughout the entire general election, including the final weeks of the election. "McCain's ahead, so I guess it's hopeless" is self-fulfilling. Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,585 by mmoffitt 11/21/16 4:36:53 PM 11/21/16 4:36:53 PM Reply	Nice Try. I wasn't going by polls. Anyone who had been at least half conscious for the past 30 years would have recognized that she did not have a chance in Indiana without having to bother looking at a poll. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,588 by Another Scott 11/21/16 4:54:39 PM 11/21/16 4:54:39 PM Reply	Heh. I guess we would all be better off if we ignored evidence and just relied on your gut, eh? (sigh) Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,592 by mmoffitt 11/22/16 8:02:28 AM 11/22/16 8:02:28 AM Reply	It's called observation. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.

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