Post #412,437
8/4/16 6:28:34 AM
8/4/16 6:28:34 AM
|
(Sub)urban landscapes
I was walking to the gym this morning, about 800 metres (half a mile or so) across town, when I was struck by just how alien this urban landscape would be to most Americans. Narrow terraced streets with businesses wedged into them.
Certainly when I walked around, say, Philly or suburban Sicklerville, there was a much clearer divide - people live over here and the business is done over here. At least, that's the way it looked to me.
Is it just an artifact of the situation - 65 million people living in an island the size of Michigan (only 4 states - CT, MA, RI and NJ - are more densely populated) - so everything tends to be packed in?
Or is it a deliberate thing? Tell me about how you people organise yourselves and your settlements.
if nothing else it'll make a change from politics
|
Post #412,438
8/4/16 7:23:00 AM
8/4/16 7:23:00 AM
|
The same dichotomy can be seen in Aus.
The very oldest parts of our cities and inner suburbs (that haven't been redeveloped) are streets of largely narrow houses with an odd smattering of businesses. And every few blocks there will be a block or five of shops. But out in the suburbs and in most country towns, people take advantage of the space.
It's been said that the suburban landscape is very car-oriented. When people think nothing of driving for five minutes to get somewhere, then you get houses on large blocks, shops far away and businesses in business parks. Make things car-unfriendly and walkable and you get the opposite. And a lot of Europe was developed before the car was wide-spread. Unlike the US.
Wade.
|
Post #412,442
8/4/16 8:05:59 AM
8/4/16 8:05:59 AM
|
It's a local zoning thing, mostly.
Consider Arlington, VA. That old little blue house is on the edge of Wilson Boulevard - the heart of Arlington. Lots of multi-story business buildings there. There used to be a ~ 1850s house stuck between some ~ 10+ story office buildings on WB, but I don't know if it's still there or not. Arlington had no qualms about putting huge buildings right next to homes (at least in certain districts). J used to live in Concord, MA. Right next door to them was Lincoln, MA. They had a zoning ordinance that all parcels for single-family homes had to be at least 2 acres (I don't know if they still do or not). Rules like that dramatically shape the character of a neighborhood. Zoning is a local thing, so the character can vary a great deal - it varies a great deal in Arlington as you travel up WB. But unless an area is being gentrified, it's usually shaped by the zoning rules that were in place when the area was first developed (it's often much cheaper to develop suburban land than to try to make-over an area in a city). Arlington is trying to be good about new "mixed use" development - lots of those high-rise buildings are apartments or condos. Cheers, Scott.
|
Post #412,448
8/4/16 10:33:47 AM
8/4/16 10:33:47 AM
|
What he said
For about the last 60 years suburban zoning has primarily focused on separating business districts from residential. In business districts that typically includes required parking and optional sidewalks, so even if you could get there on foot you might not be able to get around safely. They know it's a problem, but it's apparently getting worse before it gets better.
|
Post #412,465
8/5/16 12:54:49 AM
8/5/16 12:54:49 AM
|
*Optional* pavements?
Wow. That's pretty whacked.
What's the rationale behind that?
|
Post #412,466
8/5/16 7:16:07 AM
8/5/16 7:16:07 AM
|
Nobody walks anyway
|
Post #412,476
8/5/16 11:56:15 AM
8/5/16 11:56:15 AM
|
Well, I know one place nobody walks.
I took a course in a medical software package on Long Island. The people there were all overweight. The food there was unbelievably terrible, but very high in calories.
I walked half way across the island and back. The sidewalks were discontinuous, but where they ended there was only weeds - no track worn through the weeds at all. Seeing me walking, cars actually stopped to look at me.
|
Post #412,468
8/5/16 8:20:48 AM
8/5/16 8:20:48 AM
|
It's an extra cost.
In older 50+ year old subdivisions, it's quite common for there to be no sidewalks as they weren't required. The rationale seemed to be that they were so far out that people would have to drive anyway. In newer, or gentrified subdivisions, in the '60s there seemed to be a requirement for sidewalks. Developers of newer subdivisions seem to hate them because they're an extra expense, they make the postage-stamp size lots seem smaller, they enable people to walk by your place when you want it to be your fortress, etc. Atrios often rants about things like this (he lives in Philly). He talks about people demanding free reserved on-street parking via cutouts (which makes congestion worse, makes it less walkable, there can never be enough parking of that sort, especially if one wants rapid transit, etc.) We seem to be in a transition in figuring out how urban and semi-urban areas work in the US. It's going to be a messy transition. I assume that eventually cars are going to be heavily taxed or banned in urban areas - there's no way to make things like efficient transit work the way things are now (too much congestion for buses and trolleys, not enough cheap land for gigantic parking lots, etc.). Cheers, Scott.
|
Post #412,471
8/5/16 10:14:39 AM
8/5/16 10:14:39 AM
|
My parents never owned or drove a car.
For the 50+ years (for my Mom) they lived in NYC (Lower East Side of Manhattan) till they died, it did not make sense to them. The costs, and not only in money, would have exceeded the benefits. All the essentials needs were satisfied by a short walk. Although you had to walk outside, some things could be had in the same building!
Now vising them by car was always a hassle for me. Parking was always a problem. Odd/even side of the street, time of day restrictions, feeding quarters into parking meters, vandalism, etc., was always an issue. Parking garages were not cheap, but eventually became the preferred solution or me. Alex
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
-- Isaac Asimov
|
Post #412,474
8/5/16 11:18:39 AM
8/5/16 11:18:39 AM
|
Our sub was built in 1967
No sidewalks. We see more people out walking in our sub than in the newer subs with the sidewalks. Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
|
Post #412,475
8/5/16 11:45:25 AM
8/5/16 11:45:25 AM
|
Ours was ~ 1963.
We have sidewalks on our street and on streets built-out after us. The street just south of us (in the same subdivision) is just a few years older and they don't have sidewalks. It doesn't get as much foot traffic, though Sophie and I do walk it occasionally (out in the street).
Foot traffic around us seems to be a very strong function of homeowners with dogs - much stronger than the number of homes with kids. Dog ownership has been on a steady rise in our neighborhood over the last decade or so. Maybe that's the secret!
Cheers,
Scott.
|
Post #412,477
8/5/16 12:52:09 PM
8/5/16 12:52:09 PM
|
the subdiv where I rent in mississippi was built in 1927
lots of walking paths but no sidewalks. always look out for number one and don't step in number two
|
Post #412,487
8/5/16 7:50:51 PM
8/5/16 7:50:51 PM
|
Believe this-all belongs in a topic explored on NPR (yesterday!)
Called The Ride, it conflates the entire bodies-transported gigundo-Matter, attempting to catalyze an actual debate re "car ownership at all??" ... along with probably many habits as created the Sidewalk topic. KPCCs The Ride
Summer Road Trip -- The Ride is all about modern mobility. This one-hour special explores radical ideas, such as designing cities for people rather than cars, how our identities got so entwined with our mode of transportation, and the pure joy of going fast. Come along for a ride on a custom motorbike with actor Keanu Reeves, learn about the cutting edge of car-to-car communication, plus much more.Hosted by motor journalist Susan Carpenter (LA Times, OC Register) and former aerospace worker and current comic Alonzo Bodden, KPCC's The Ride is sure to make summer road trips more entertaining ..And for consistency in the current utter, Manic Lowering of Consciousness..Just now, the audio isn't yet There. Duh/KQED. Hey, it's not just the fate of the Planet in the face of Universal $$$-for-STUFF ennui drowning out Nest-survival.. OmiCthulhu: now it's about STEALING our RIDES :-0
|
Post #412,488
8/5/16 11:34:00 PM
8/5/16 11:34:00 PM
|
Neat. Thanks for the pointer.
|
Post #412,500
8/6/16 9:55:05 PM
8/6/16 9:55:05 PM
|
..and thanks for Yours
I frequently lose patience with the obvious 'omissions' (in this case "audio not available==A LIE, duh") which complexify rilly simple matters as could be made..
Intuitively Obvious (™-The Institute collection of pre-'geek' nomenclatura.)
We'unses in these parts Know you CAN make such wishes (tell people about something worth a view or re-view, say) EEZY PEEZY, whereas: the Biz majors/even at PBS/NPR! seem drawn from the Windows 3.1 Era.
I think it's pur-sang sloth, a mind-state I also observe to be COMING-in strong, here in the dis-US.
|
Post #412,450
8/4/16 10:44:33 AM
8/4/16 10:44:33 AM
|
you probably dont have the issue of race in the mix
not that long ago over here, folks built things in places so other folks could not go there and pollute the landscape. Prior to 1965 or so that meant you had two distinct shopping and living districts in each town. Now distance is used to put the other folks out of reach. always look out for number one and don't step in number two
|
