Hehehe.... Okay. Now we really get sticky...

Post #41,207 by folkert 6/4/02 10:26:34 PM Reply	Hehehe.... Okay. Now we really get sticky... Err... sticky buttons that is. make sure all the LED and pushbutton leads are all disconnected. Make sure you hook-up minimum needed to bootup (minimum memory, one HD, Video Card...etc) Now... take a small screw driver and "short" the power-button leads on the header fer a quick second. If it boots... well you now have decidedly experienced the single most difficult "consumer" PC problem to trouble-shoot I have ever experienced. What it comes down to, the button was "sticking" and had occasionaly remained close but only just so. Sometimes it would be open enough to boot, sometimes not. Could be the "big button" has some junk behind it keeping the switch partially in. or maybe the spring is busted on your Windoze box... from pushing it so often... ;-) Only solutions, clean or replace. `greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!`
Post #41,208 by cwbrenn 6/4/02 10:41:30 PM Reply	you mean... it might be a problem with the TOWER? Oh... if that turns out to be the case (ahem), I'm just going to cry. A lot. :P LOL "We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
Post #41,217 by folkert 6/4/02 11:15:20 PM Reply	Case in point! Yes... I could be convinced of that! If it turns out I boxed the problem... you gotta put it in the strip! Something like "super computer program and hardware crippled by $.01 power switch" That'd be gr8! Hope (not really though) that is all it was. `greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!`
Post #41,263 by cwbrenn 6/5/02 10:57:44 AM Reply	Ok, it's not the case because I opened up a case that I knew worked (because I could boot on that machine, heh) and attached that "on" switch to the motherboard in question, and used that case's "on" switch to power up the MB. Same problem. Since that configuration was working correctly, I went ahead and put the new CPU in that and tried to turn it on. No dice. So I'm wondering if perhaps I damaged that one while trying to install it. I don't know why they warn you not to press down on the CPU while installing the heat sink, and then make the heat sink impossible to hook up without using every goddamn muscle in your body... "We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
Post #41,341 by folkert 6/5/02 9:13:38 PM Reply	BOG.... Wow, I'd have to have it in front of me... Wish I had developed those remote hands sooner than later. `greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!`
Post #41,359 by Ashton 6/6/02 1:40:39 AM Reply	On using force - if you find some cockamamie way to support the board right under the CPU socket while persuading.. it helps. Any chance of returning the mb + cpu and let seller 'test' it? Offhand I'd say that you have logically substituted about everything except the Powered By ____ decal. (Except, as Wade hinted at in another forum -- if there was a problem with the case-mounting - say Not making a one-point good ground? - well just maybe it'd work sitting on a piece of insulator and plugged in to all the entrails) Luck, Ashton
Post #41,384 by static 6/6/02 8:00:48 AM Reply	Grounding motherboards. A friend had a problem with a motherboard some while back. Basically, he set it up on a desk to test it all prior to putting the thing in a case. Wouldn't boot reliably. So he found the docket and rang up the vendor. Took it over to them, whereupon they powered it up on a known insulated surface. It ran fine. :-) Wade. "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #41,212 by Ashton 6/4/02 10:59:06 PM Reply	Uh.. yeah Was busy typing up a list of weird scenarios and plumb forgot the Ugly Cheap Switches they make from recycled Nippon beer cans over there. More than once I've almost put in a Real Toggle Switch. Cheap bastards. (Used to call mental trobleshooting er 'front panel milking', esp. w/ all the things on a scope -- but when a panel switch itself is fubar...) PS Greg - have you grokked the bit about el-cheapo Alum electrolytics on Most MBs (at least last time I looked, heard rumors). That is - instead of paying for "low-ESR" they use ordinary 'lytics. (Yes I recall your helpful comment re much the same issue - on the 454A PS caps - but I'm talkin 'bout consumer-grade filters for those 1-V CPUs here). I imagine a lot of MB failures in 2-4 years (another incentive for ya to dump a good one: who ever changes caps on a MB ??) Next mb I buy, I bring the mag glass and Look at those caps with dental mirror for: "<Lo-ESR>" somewhere. Cheers, Ashton
Post #41,218 by folkert 6/4/02 11:30:00 PM Reply	Saw a huge batch... Of cheap 'lytics on a "modular" motherboard, fail miserably. Completely replaced all board with the probs, about 450ish. NOW the replacement are even showning signs of failing again... this time, mica caps are popping. Aging is the cause. The manufacturer used a sub-standard ceramic to seal 'em up. goin through em all again. Different motherboard manufacturer completely this time. Gateway has taken it on the chin big time with these. I heard a few institutions bought upwards of 10K+ of these machines. We are a self service institution... getting $25 a machine to swap em out. So we actually do pretty good on the problems. Now, we get to learn a completely new thing with IBM being our PC supplier! Oh well. `greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!`
Post #41,227 by Ashton 6/5/02 12:25:18 AM Reply	PC electronics appears most often to be a POS By comparison with any decent not-consumer electronic device, that is. I was spoiled by looking at the too-fancy switcher in the Otrona.. then I looked inside the Osborne1 (and even the later Zorba). Ugh. I guess PC Power & Cooling remains the engineered choice for PSs, but are there any really Premium mbs out there? Ditto cases with industrial switches and decent jacks? I'd think any bizness would pay a little extra for quality in those areas. Wait!.. no, I guess I wouldn't bet that. Hey.. Otrona - had some PS mon leds for each PS with go no-go levels for green/red. You could peek in from case vents to see if the "summary for all" led was a nice green. I thought... (that being CP/M days) surely ALL later \ufffd-stuff would at least: make that kind of troubleshooting EZ. Hah.. maybe the country that Deserves Billy, deserves equivalent-grade hdwre too. What did you mean re the mod. mb "450ish"? Be that the COST of that sucker!? And how odd that new, good qual caps would fail soon - vastly too much ripple-current for the actual cap rating? If so, you'd not likely have room! for any rated higher (if there are any that can handle massive ripple current). Heh: water-cooled caps - add to list! 'Least on Tek, seems that the -8 V ps is often a canary - hi ripple in any of several totem-poled other supplies seems to knock it way off. Shee-it I Hate working on Junque. Especially crap knowingly designed to fail soon for MBA marketing designs. We seem started down the other side of the QC curve now: having found out how to do Five-Nines reliability - the scum in marketing are designing for sabotage, but please to call it [some lie]. Ashton
Post #41,338 by folkert 6/5/02 9:05:28 PM Reply	Splain'd about 450 in count. MOdular means "multi-piece" cost initially was alot less. BUt now after 2 replacements... well I believe Gateway is eating them big time. The real problem was was they used 13.5v caps. Now the new boards are using 25v caps (good) and the mica's(err mylar...) are both made by Siemens. Both are premium lines of parts. Plus, seems as though GW made a real effort to fix everything. `greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!`

Welcome to IWETHEY!