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New And now for something almost but not quite completely
unlike tea. (Blessed Bee the LRPeeDee)

I recall hearing (as in 'audio') lumped into the $Trillions For Security budget, a little phrase re ~ "developing new, improved 'tactical nukes'".

Does anyone else recall that little insertion? (Yeah, will try Google for the hallowe'end links - but I do believe my ears were functioning OK and indeed passed this FACTOID into at least cache storage..)

Now leaving aside for this thread (I guess) - the dubious Question of whether pasting-on the sobriquet Tactical- [???] cancels out the FACT of just having USED a NUKE - Period:

My flag went up as: Stage 1A of The Conditioning Process, Take-2002:
Get the message out early.. get folks accustomed to the use of er 'little-guys'... (Sorta the Reddy Kilowatt redux? of that famous slogan: "With nuc. reactors why - electricity will soon be Too Cheap to Bother Metering!" Anyone recall Those days? And Slogans. And the purpose of Slogans.)

I see this as begging the Question of *Ever* using nukes *except* in retaliation ie NO FIRST STRIKE *ever* from the USA. Remember? That was *supposed* to be the US-Rulez Imposed on Self, and *proclaimed* during the [ongoing as we speak] M.A.D. Manifesto. Yes, this principle was re Strategic- ie the MADDEST of the MAD devices. BUT..

I'd assert that - we have always remained Officially-Fuzzy re any *legitimate excuse* for use of these so-called Tactical- devices. And in perfect Murican syndrome of, "if it's awkward to talk about, flush-it-down the toilet" - *never* was anything remotely-like public discussion of such usage, ever encouraged.

(Well of course too - when was OUR last plebiscite on the size of the US arsenal and.. *asking* what millions of Muricans actually *think* should be the restrictions on its use? I've plumb forgotten that last one. I can't even remember ONE! Is that Alzheimers or ..?)

Clearly this Admin is currently planning textbook Max-Force operations in any next. Unless I've missed it cold: I have seen no signs of any slightest deviation from (Our) Might Makes (any action we take next) Right. Did I miss something, some secret conference wherein we actually *asked another country* to critique our Plans? (Er something ~ like the famous Advise & Consent clause ??)

So, in brief: I find the above 'inserted budget item' to signify the *apparent course* anticipated by the Selected Government of the US.. "progressively..." next, and >as bad results come in< with the Right which our next Might might create.

I deem that: TRULY FRIGHTENING a development in THIS Admin's ""thought-process"" (Especially given the personnel). The former Texas Gov's clear opinion that - ALL those Texas-executed folk were ALWAYS guilty; never no-mind about them Librul DNA test thingies and them Other States' experience with ummm Errors n'stuff. ie what we have here 6/4/02 is: a Pres-sElect who is *Certain* he is Right about such matters. We have also: a Pres-sElect who is seen not to be the brightest LED in the backlight.

Am I the only one (here) who finds this factoid ominous? What say the Commie-Pinko Subversives AND the Flag-encased Patriots on:

Our Nuclear Future ???
as-of this almost 58th anniversary of the D-Day Landings, in the (last-Honourable?) War fought in.. the Warfare Century - which we have just barely sqeaked-through.



Ashton

Who might be able to see the mushroom-base begin forming over SF, all in time to: go ahead and finish that putt for Eagle - before.. the blast-wave hits. Unless I was looking at the flash, of course. 1100'/sec, 50ish miles - yep, physics will work right through to the End.
New Correction.
I see this as begging the Question of *Ever* using nukes *except* in retaliation ie NO FIRST STRIKE *ever* from the USA. Remember? That was *supposed* to be the US-Rulez Imposed on Self, and *proclaimed* during the [ongoing as we speak] M.A.D. Manifesto. Yes, this principle was re Strategic- ie the MADDEST of the MAD devices. BUT..
Ummm, we've ALWAYS retained the "right" of first use in nukes. Happily!

We will/may first strike with nukes.
We will/may second strike with chemicals.
We will never use biological weapons.

Now, the use of TACTICAL nukes was to offset a SUPERIOR FORCE OF ARMOUR.

Well, that and to (I think this was the phrasing) "to dramatically and effectively change the enemy commander's assessment of the battle".

Now, when are we EVER going to face overwhelming armour forces? Or ANY overwhelming force? Iraq was one of the biggest and we STILL wiped them out without even deploying our entire force.

At this point, tactical nukes are (at best) not necessary. Unless Canada has been secretly producing thousands of tanks.

At worst, they are a target for terrorists or people who would supply terrorists.
New Clarification noted.
Assuming that what you recall (from actual presence in our military service, perhaps?) - was ~ the rationale:

Do I notice sufficient vagary in some of those phrases such that, say,
massed armour might be retranslated for 2002 to mean er.. significant threat to National Sovereignty (or any other sufficiently fluid phrase) ??

And too - the need for New ones might well be: for their mass customized production - say, for the methodical rubbleizing of every cave we happen to find in the next 'hostile harbour of Bad People' ? plus a rather confidential list of other imagined 'purposes'. 'Cause that's what I infer from this brief leak of intentions. (After all - we wouldn't *fund* something we have No Intention of Ever Using, now would we?)


Ashton
like watching a building collapse in slo-mo .... ... .. .
New You are so full of yourself it's pathetic...
The scenario you describe could never, under any circumstance arise.

You write:
"Who might be able to see the mushroom-base begin forming over SF, all in time to: go ahead and finish that putt for Eagle - before.. the blast-wave hits."

Sir, BACK THAT UP! Show me that you have ever putted for eagle in your life... or were you referring to Putt Putt?
Just a few thoughts,

Ben Dover

"Nuclear fallout" - the other white meat.
New Nailed by a wannabe Pro..
You are absolutely correct. Never went *near* a golf course... subsequent to a childhood experience of..

caddying, thankyouverymuch.














Thus I hope.. my little *overall* scenario is similarly improbable - were I ever to get close enough to a green, to ask the question of someone foolish enough to pair with me:

What's a putter ???



:-\ufffd
New Tac nukes were not just for armor
tac nukes like the neutron bomb were for massive casualties with little impact destruction and an extremely short half life. So called ultra clean bomb. Carter wanted them until a worldwide outcry put them on the shelf until china developed them. Put one in the middle of a city take out all the inhabitants but only leave a small crater and no firestorm.
thanx,
bill
TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
New Neutron bombs and us.
Ah, the capitalistic weapon. Kill the workers and leave the means of production. :)

The radiation doesn't kill instantly. Well, it does, but in a smaller area. The outer areas will provide a terminal dose of radiation, but the people will be able to operate for a week or more.

Again, back to armour, the Russian issued "radiation pills" to their tankers so that when we did use neutron bombs on them, they would be "cured" of the radiation sickness and be able to continue the advance.
New iodine pills no doubt,
TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
New Oh, you read that story too?
Don't remember where I read it, but some weird story about the "Capitalist Bomb" and the "Communist Bomb" - the Capitalist bomb killed people, the Communist bomb unmade manufactured objects. Well, one thing leads to another, and the respective sides blow the holy hell out of each other.

Generations pass, and survivors from the U.S. (Hey, when you unmake skyscrapers and airplanes, it's not the bomb that kills you - it's gravity!) finally make their way to Russia to utilize their infrastructure... And then for some reason, start calling each other "Comrade" and acting like they're living in a Socialist paradise.

It was a Weird Story.
InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
New No. That was something I picked up from S2.
I wonder if they had read it.

And nothing on google, either.

:(
New I don't think you 'get' neutron bombs.
And I'd have to locate some ancient notes to give you chapter and verse about why.. such a one is unlikely to fit into a 105 mm howitzer round - nor is it a suitable concept for any near-ground burst (like an er 'demolition package' to be toted somewhere). Near-ground == more and more hot detritus. (Let's not further confuse above also with - the scenario to maximize EMP over a large area)

As to 'short half-life' - would that you could just pick the left-over isotopes from your ebay shopping list.. Yes you could sorta bend the mix to a degree, but the essence of the n bomb was to maximize the radiation flash and minimize the blast-wave. These max/mins aren't as different from 'mean' as was hyped. After all - Consumer Reports isn't going to vet the truth in advertising... But yes: less efficient for having less heavy-tamper yada yada

My point is still: this is early conditioning for acceptance of of Just a Little Nuke... if we get ourselves into more trouble than we projected: via next unilateral-decisions in *Our* War on Evil. As propaganda.. this is the evident aim.

Do citizens imagine that: the 'intended role' for small weapons was ever - spelled out with any great clarity? (or that it ever Would be?) And especially now: a postulated future 'need' ??? while our overall strategy for dealing with (others) "Evilness" is being hatched by

This. Bunch. ???



rest case. It's called: psych conditioning.

Ashton
New Davy, Davy Crockett
All this talk of tactical nukes reminds me of things like [link|http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/FP/projects/nucwcost/davyc.htm|this]
--
Chris Altmann
New Hmmm
Main page unavailable (link from that one)
"We regret any inconvenience"..

Probably just as well..

1 Ton-TNT at 75# weight in 1961, though the test version was ~ 20 Tons. Imagine what 40 years' development can produce next.




Ashton
     And now for something almost but not quite completely - (Ashton) - (12)
         Correction. - (Brandioch) - (1)
             Clarification noted. - (Ashton)
         You are so full of yourself it's pathetic... - (screamer) - (1)
             Nailed by a wannabe Pro.. - (Ashton)
         Tac nukes were not just for armor - (boxley) - (5)
             Neutron bombs and us. - (Brandioch) - (3)
                 iodine pills no doubt, -NT - (boxley)
                 Oh, you read that story too? - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                     No. That was something I picked up from S2. - (Brandioch)
             I don't think you 'get' neutron bombs. - (Ashton)
         Davy, Davy Crockett - (altmann) - (1)
             Hmmm - (Ashton)

Good ... bad ... I'm the guy with the gun.
48 ms