You tell me.

Post #410,987 by Another Scott 6/10/16 2:34:47 PM 6/10/16 2:34:47 PM Reply	You tell me. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2009/july/125564.htm Our first question is from Arshad Mohammed. You may ask your question. QUESTION: Thanks very much for doing the call. Two things: One, can you give us a – earlier this week, Secretary Clinton gave us to understand that you were holding off on a determination on whether it was indeed a military coup. And there was the inference that this was to open up diplomatic space to reach a negotiated outcome. Is that still your stance, even though I know that you are – that the Legal Adviser’s Office has begun the process of determining whether it was a military coup and, therefore, whether the aid cutoff is triggered? And secondly, beyond calling for the restoration of – you know, beyond calling for the restoration of President Zelaya, do you believe that any political solution that may be achieved must also address the misgivings of those Hondurans about the referendum that he had planned to hold on the possibility of allowing Honduran presidents to serve more than one four-year term? SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL ONE: In regard to the first question, both the President and the Secretary have described events in Honduras as a coup, which they certainly were once the current claimant to the presidency swore – was sworn in before the congress after the forcible removal of the legal and constitutional president, Mel Zelaya. In regard to assistance, obviously, we’re evaluating the impact of these actions on our assistance programs. The focus of our assistance programs is the well-being of the Honduran people. That remains our focus as we conduct this evaluation. But it’s important to note at this moment that we are working with our partners in the OAS, through the Inter-American Democratic Charter, to try to fashion a resolution of this interruption of democratic and constitutional order. And therefore, we have determined that we will wait until the Secretary General has finished his diplomatic initiatives and reports back to the General Assembly on July 6th before we take any further action in relationship to assistance. What was your second question again? QUESTION: The second question was whether you thought that – I mean, the Administration, I think, has been fairly clear in calling for the restoration of President Zelaya, and please correct me if I’ve misinterpreted that. And the question is: Do you think a political solution needs to also address the concerns about – the concerns in many parts of the political elite about the referendum he planned to hold? SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL ONE: Yeah, there are two different things here. In regard to the illegal detention and expulsion of President Zelaya, this was an act which was unconstitutional and illegal and cannot be tolerated. And in the resolutions that we have associated ourselves with, or co-sponsored in the UN, we have called for the unconditional return of President Zelaya. In other words, concerns or doubts about the wisdom of his actions relating to his proposed non-binding referendum have – are independent of the unconstitutional act taken against him. In that regard, obviously, as the Secretary General attempts to fashion diplomatic initiatives and outreach to those people who undertook the coup, there will be political discussions in which, obviously, the concerns that led them to take action against the president will be raised. And it would be reasonable to assume that the continuing viability of democratic government in Honduras would have to take those into account in some fashion. It was a mess, as Wikipedia points out. What do you think that she did that she shouldn't have? Cheers, Scott.
Post #411,011 by mmoffitt 6/11/16 8:20:02 AM 6/11/16 8:20:02 AM Reply	Lying about it being a coup for openers. In her own words: http://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/13/hear_hillary_clinton_defend_her_role Then there's this: How Hillary Clinton Militarized US Policy in Honduras She used a State Department office closely involved with counterinsurgency efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq to aid the coup regime in Honduras. In 2012, as Honduras descended into social and political chaos in the wake of a US-sanctioned military coup, the civilian aid arm of Hillary Clinton’s State Department spent over $26 million on a propaganda program aimed at encouraging anti-violence “alliances” between Honduran community groups and local police and security forces. The program, called “Honduras Convive,” was designed by the US Agency for International Development (USAID) to reduce violent crimes in a country that had simultaneously become the murder capital of the world and a staging ground for one of the largest deployments of US Special Operations forces outside of the Middle East. It was part of a larger US program to support the conservative government of Pepe Lobo, who came to power in 2009 after the Honduran military ousted the elected president, José Manuel Zelaya, in a coup that was widely condemned in Central America. In reality, critics say, the program was an attempt by the State Department to scrub the image of a country where security forces have a record of domestic repression that continues to the present day. “This was all about erasing memories of the coup and the structural causes of violence,” says Adrienne Pine, an assistant professor of anthropology at American University who spent the 2013-14 school year teaching at the National Autonomous University of Honduras. “It’s related to the complete absence of participatory democracy in Honduras, in which the United States is deeply complicit.” “With the coup, Clinton had a real opportunity to do the right thing and shift US policy to respect democratic processes,” added Alex Main, an expert on US policy in Central America at the Center for Economic and Policy Research, after being told of the program. “But she completely messed it up, and we’re seeing the consequences of it now.” Honduras Convive (“Honduras Coexists”) was the brainchild of the Office of Transition Initiatives (OTI), a controversial unit of USAID that operates overseas much like the CIA did during the Cold War. Sanctioned by Congress in 1994, OTI intervenes under the direction of the State Department, the Pentagon, and other security agencies in places like Afghanistan, Haiti, and Colombia to boost support for local governments backed by the United States. Sometimes, as it has in Cuba and Venezuela, its programs are directed at stirring opposition to leftist regimes. Clinton gave the office a major boost after she became Secretary of State; its programs are overseen by an under secretary of state as well as the top administrator of USAID. http://www.thenation.com/article/how-hillary-clinton-militarized-us-policy-in-honduras/ Right out of Henry's fucking playbook.
Post #411,015 by Another Scott 6/11/16 9:50:04 AM 6/11/16 9:50:04 AM Reply	She has a time machine like Obama now? The coup was in 2009. How is something that supposedly happened in 2012 an indication that she "lied" about what she said about it in 2009? An opinion piece years later doesn't change what was actually said about it at the time, as I documented above. (sheesh) Cheers, Scott.
Post #411,024 by mmoffitt 6/11/16 4:01:51 PM 6/11/16 4:01:51 PM Reply	Sheesh Indeed. Did you watch the video? Or are you on full-on apology mode now?
Post #411,027 by Another Scott 6/11/16 4:44:08 PM 6/11/16 4:44:08 PM Reply	No I didn't watch the April 13, 2016 video. All I saw was a link and a bunch of text. The contemporaneous statements out of the State Department were clear as day. Do you dispute them? Nothing I saw in the contemporaneous State department statements contradict what she said in that interview with Gonzales in spite of Amy coloring the events as Hillary being "involved in" the coup. See the link at #410987 for what was going on then. Cheers, Scott.

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