chuckle

Post #40,999 by Simon_Jester 6/3/02 5:02:17 PM Reply	chuckle his status as a journalist would have >traditionally< protected him. Really? I think history would argue against that. Several journalists were killed in Vietnam (and Korea, iirc). More recently, Journalists were denied entry into Jenin, being told that they would shot at, if they went to the wrong place. I will barely mention what our own military has told Journalists would happen to them if they got in the way. And these Journalists are on "our side". An arab journalist that 'gets in the way'... Filming his beheading and promising more...I think may qualify them as evil bastards that need to be exterminated. Certainly they are. It doesn't excuse the fact that he willing and knowingly went into an area that hated Jews/Americans. Damn those hippy liberals...they think they can go anywhere. :-) (You don't see any humor in it? I do.)
Post #41,008 by Ashton 6/3/02 5:37:10 PM Reply	Of course there's the fact that he was an Idealist - And in a nation which follows John Dewey Pragmatism wherever it leads - he deserved to die for Heresy. Was that the joke?
Post #41,012 by Simon_Jester 6/3/02 6:24:09 PM Reply	Close... of course he was an idealist...I'll even grant that he had no clue how the world really worked. But...and maybe I'm missing it...but I hear the pragmistists blasting the idealists for their zany ideas. Then, we're going to go charging in and save the world because one of them got killed? And make the world safe for our grandkids? Now that's idealistic. ;-) But I just enjoy the idea that a certain group of people have blasted journalists (and their ideals) are now saying that we need to avenge for the killing for a journalist. I just find that humorous.
Post #41,035 by screamer 6/3/02 11:45:32 PM Reply	Dear sir, if you are referring to moi when you try to lump me into any group you would be fucking wrong... I never claimed to be a bleeding staunch heart anything. No republocrat rhetoric here... If I am being sensitive, then forgive me. If I don't play into your own particular brand of politico nonsensico, so be it... When you run, you can count on my not voting for you because I no longer vote... That said - Just what do you think is so fucking humorous about anyone, journalist or non, being killed and beheaded on video? Whether this man was an idealist or a communist or a nihilist or sophist or a tranvestite or ... is completely irrelevent in my book. He was used as a pawn and brutally murdered. Pardon me for not getting your little fucking joke, but just what was it? Just a few thoughts, Screamer "As people assemble, civilization Is trying to find a new way to die, But killing is really, merely scene changer,all men are bored, with other men's lives" ... "We all know success, when we all find our own dreams And our love is enough to knock down any walls And the future's been seen, as men try to realize The simple secret of the note in us all in us all" P. Townshend - Pure and Easy
Post #41,040 by Ashton 6/4/02 12:46:45 AM Reply	Maybe more ironical than ha-ha? So he was an idealist. We assume. Maybe an egoist out for fame? (Ah.. then.. we could love him like Billy or Donald (Duck or Trump) right?) Those fond of dissing all journalists as either - A) Librul dope-smokin hippies (er are those idealists too? I forget.) or B) Unprincipled naive dupes, whatever their affiliation - believe it was kinda dumb where he went, being who he [was labelled]. But he gets killed - and this after he has acceded to obvious demands to parrot the captor's poli-speak. All of this: precisely as brutal as the killing of civilians in long-ago mere hijackings. Same group mindset as the sub-humans above. And the journalist dissers want him avenged (too). You don't find some cognitive dissonance in this all? (Despite it being an unarguably barbarous action committed by diseased homo-saps who need to be discorporated - only way to be sure it's their last act. (Nuke from orbit.. has the same tag-line)) Ashton Mankind lacks scale and relativity. (Comment by somebody.. perceptive) Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself. (I am large. I contain multitudes.) Song of Myself, Walt Whitman
Post #41,053 by Brandioch 6/4/02 2:04:43 AM Reply	I think it is hilarious. His name is now better known than it would EVER have been for his writing. He was used as a pawn and brutally murdered. He went looking for a story and a story found him. How to explain the concept of politically motivated killings to someone who thinks that it won't happen to him? How to convey the anger and hatred carried by some people when the worst you've seen is someone kicking a dog? How to show that your life, while the most important thing you own, isn't worth shit to someone else? Some people are just not capable of internalizing certain concepts. I think that this was an example of one of them. It's a shame, but it was his choice.
Post #41,058 by bepatient 6/4/02 3:01:03 AM Reply	I guess you missed their message. Hopefully you won't have the misfortune of being in the wrong place in any of your travels. Sure...he was a reporter looking for a story. Next it might be a member of the Peace Corps delivering aid to starving children. They don't care. They will do it again. Glad you think its funny. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #41,075 by Simon_Jester 6/4/02 9:19:52 AM Reply	Nope...I didn't and I certainly don't plan on traveling to places where the natives are unfriendly. But..again, the humor is in those championing the cause, not what the death. (Although I doubt you'll get the humor). And...who was saying that Americans didn't need to be reminded that there were those out there who wanted to harm us?
Post #41,086 by bepatient 6/4/02 10:02:17 AM Reply	Dunno. Who? I don't mind the warnings. Don't need them...I've seen the hostility up close and personal...for nothing other than being a US citizen. And I see that you think this can only happen where the "natives are unfriendly". Where...exactly...is that? Jersey City? The enemy is among us. Pakistan was officially assisting the US. Pearl was captured in a "friendly" nation. Let's see...Al_Queda members were detained or captured in Singapore, London, Hamburg, Minnesota, Madrid... Understand yet? There is >no< place that can be identified as where the natives are all friendly. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #41,099 by Simon_Jester 6/4/02 11:57:56 AM Reply	Actually you.... You said, unless I'm mistaken, that vague non-specific terrorist warnings were harmful. As for the enemy, yes, the are everywhere. However, Pearl wasn't killed in Jersey City, Singapore, London, Hamburg, Minnesota, or Madrid. Pearl was kill in Pakinstan, which was taking in refugees from Afganistan. (And why were there refugees from Afganistan???) There is >no< place that can be identified as where the natives are all friendly. Horrors...I'd better not go to the 7-11 to get gas tonight...Abdul there might be a bin Ladin supporter and cut my throat! cough. Come on bepatient...even you will admit (I hope) that there are areas more dangerous than others Journalists regularly go into these areas to get to stories certain groups have blasted Journalists for compromising military operations (and the liberal mindset as a whole) particularly for trying to get close to the 'enemy' and now...there is this argument that the death of journalist is (part of) the reason to kill Al Queda. And you don't see ANY humor in this?
Post #41,115 by bepatient 6/4/02 1:13:52 PM Reply	Nope... I just pointed out a situation (not this one) that I actually >did< find humorous...and that situation was a call for more warnings followed by a criticism for issuing them. So it will take a murder in some more >friendly< place to get the point across to you. Thats fine. I'm sure you'll be obliged at some point. NY was just an appetizer. And I will agree that there are places that are >more< dangerous than others...I just won't be naive enough to think that there are areas that are completely >safe<. I don't see anyone using the Pearl video as a reason to kill Al-Q. If they are...then maybe they are using Al-q as the "terrorist poster children". Understandable, even though misinformed. I don't think we need any more reason to kill Al Q than the smoking hole in Manhattan. I brought the video up as a lesson in the mindset of who we're dealing with...and you seem to find it amusing. I see no humor in it at all. Their stated mission is to kill as many of us as they can, whenever and wherever they can. Their "advertisement" was the beheading of an Jewish_American journalist. If it was just Al Q that we were dealing with...that would be great. Problem is...there are alot more groups than just Al Q that seem to want us all dead. And they seem more than happy to tell us all about it. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #41,131 by Simon_Jester 6/4/02 2:05:05 PM Reply	Sigh...somehow I knew you wouldn't see the humor... I seem to recall agreeing with you on the humor of that situation. Alas, you can't see the humor in this one. But then again, I believe it took numerous arguments (from you) to get past the emotion to show the humor in that situation. I doubt I'll have the fortitude to make the same said arguments to prove to you the humor in this one. But it does exist. Not in the killing of Pearl. Not in the video of his death. Not in the crater in Mahatten. But in the people who champion his death. "Make the bastards Pay!" Yet, they'd be blasting him for doing what he did when he died. Maybe I'm the only one who sees it.
Post #41,134 by bepatient 6/4/02 2:18:28 PM Reply	Ok...I get it. In the same vein as the "humor" surrounding the pro and con side of the death penalty...that being that the pro side is officially sanctioning the government to do what the guy who's >gettin it< did to get it in the first place. I'm not sure that humor would be the word I would use though...but I do understand from where you're coming. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #41,116 by Brandioch 6/4/02 1:16:16 PM Reply	Ah, but there is a difference. Hopefully you won't have the misfortune of being in the wrong place in any of your travels. Big difference. #1. When I go looking for trouble, I make sure I'm prepared for what I'll find. #2. I don't go looking for trouble anymore. #3. I'm not an idiot. Again, this guy went looking for a story. A story found him. The story was "your life isn't worth shit to certain people who want to make a political statement". Now, a lesson to be learned by every other "journalist" (who hasn't managed to figure it out yet) is that there are SOME stories out that that you will not survive. Next it might be a member of the Peace Corps delivering aid to starving children. Awww, those poor potentially existant children. You REALLY need to read more. Not only has this ALREADY happened (except it was nuns instead of Peace Corps workers).... but the US government was supporting it. Bill, let me tell you a bed time story..... Once upon a time there was a boy who learned that your life isn't worth shit to certain people who want to make a political statement. The end.
Post #41,122 by bepatient 6/4/02 1:34:03 PM Reply	C'mon now... Not only has this ALREADY happened (except it was nuns instead of Peace Corps workers).... but the US government was supporting it. You would >never< allow me to do this without asking for links as proof. So I must return the favor. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #41,160 by Ashton 6/4/02 4:43:17 PM Reply	Hint: was it Guatemala? Nicaragua? El Salvador? There are so many - they just all run together; it's the Murican-part of my attention span too, I guess. But nuns there were - killed by US "School of the Americas"-trained local "government" Gestapo thugs (to use the inflammatory but not inaccurate synonym for whatever was their Nombre Offici\ufffdl, Se\ufffdor..) or whatever Murican euphemism it has morphed-to of late. Gawd we Love those innocuous euphemisms! for the teaching of assholes to behave like Real assholes -- but please to call it FoundingFathers\ufffd Freedom-Fighting Contras. Another win for: The Hearts & Minds yada yada choke = >LOCALLY<. Ashton
Post #41,164 by bepatient 6/4/02 5:03:10 PM Reply	What... ...you're not in favor of Brandi getting a little homework??? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #41,200 by Brandioch 6/4/02 9:28:51 PM Reply	That's what I've previously established. I make reference to well known events. Well, they are well known to anyone who is informed on the subject. You insist that I provide links to such. Why? If this were a scientific discussion and I refered to the 3rd Law of Thermodynamics to support my position..... And you insisted I provide a link to said Law...... Well, if you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't need a link. You'd be able to contradict me from your knowledge. The same goes for this discussion (and the previous ones). Time after time you've managed to mis-state my position (hence your earning the nickname "Strawman") and even forget what I had explained only two posts ago. You are just trying to throw anything you can at my position in an attempt to discredit it. So be it. I don't care about your opinion. If you had been informed on the subject, then you would have been able to present counters to my points. Rather than mis-stating them and continually demanding that I re-post my explanations. You didn't even know about our deals with Uz or the pipeline across Afghanistan. You don't KNOW the facts of the situation but you're going to hold an opinion on it anyway. And because my opinion is different than your's, you're going to try to discredit mine any way you can. Provided it doesn't require you actually look up any facts or references. Whatever. My position may not be the best, but it is based off of more information and more accurate information than what you are willing to pursue.
Post #41,216 by bepatient 6/4/02 11:13:49 PM Reply	ROFL Good one. Which addresses nothing. Your post seems to be an exersize in you wanking about how smart you are compared to me. Hope you enjoyed it. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #41,283 by Brandioch 6/5/02 1:49:13 PM Reply	Whatever. Your post seems to be an exersize in you wanking about how smart you are compared to me. No. Not "smarter". That has not been established. What has been established is that I am better informed on the subject. -and- That you have no inclination to become better informed than you are now. -but- You will still disagree with my position. Also that you will lie and re-phrase what I post, repeatedly. Hope you enjoyed it. It's something that had to be done. I will also note that you do not attempt to refute my claim that you lie about what I post. I will state that you do not do this because it would be far to easy for me to prove that you do. Repeatedly.
Post #41,321 by bepatient 6/5/02 7:55:17 PM Reply	Why bother. I will also note that you do not attempt to refute my claim that you lie about what I post. I will state that you do not do this because it would be far to easy for me to prove that you do. Repeatedly. Why bother. I know you're wrong and correctly assume that the other 304 registered users have enough of a brain to figure it out for themselves. Feel free. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #41,330 by Brandioch 6/5/02 8:35:29 PM Reply	That's funny. Why bother. I know you're wrong and correctly assume that the other 304 registered users have enough of a brain to figure it out for themselves. Particularly since, in this very thread, you have demanded that I provide links for my other claims. But you don't demand a link for this? But you demand a link for those others.
Post #41,344 by bepatient 6/5/02 9:36:35 PM Reply	High Density Too high to figure out that the link routine was >making fun of you<. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #41,358 by Ashton 6/6/02 1:25:14 AM Reply	Oh Goodie! ______... a poll. That will certainly establish er Truth in advertising. Better yet: maybe a graph? Graphical logic. Love. It.
Post #41,074 by Simon_Jester 6/4/02 9:15:40 AM Reply	He's certainly a pawn... twice over in my opinion. Furthermore, believe it or not, you aren't (my) target. Just what do you think is so fucking humorous about anyone, journalist or non, being killed and beheaded on video? Whether this man was an idealist or a communist or a nihilist or sophist or a tranvestite or ... is completely irrelevent in my book. He was used as a pawn and brutally murdered. Pardon me for not getting your little fucking joke, but just what was it? Ahem...I didn't say it was humorous that he (or anyone else) was killed. I SAID I thought it humorous those who were championing his death.
Post #41,095 by screamer 6/4/02 11:08:01 AM Reply	Sorry for the noise I think Ashton was correct in pointing out the irony, not humour, of the situation. I do see the irony, I still don't find it humorous. That's a key distinction to me... Kind of like the irony of the unsinkable Titanic... Definately not funny... Normally I'm not all that offended by semantics, and I apologize for the tome of my post. Dan Just a few thoughts, Screamer "As people assemble, civilization Is trying to find a new way to die, But killing is really, merely scene changer,all men are bored, with other men's lives" ... "We all know success, when we all find our own dreams And our love is enough to knock down any walls And the future's been seen, as men try to realize The simple secret of the note in us all in us all" P. Townshend - Pure and Easy

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