He's already hung it up, as has every other Hillary supporter.

Post #408,435 by mmoffitt 2/28/16 3:31:59 PM 2/28/16 3:31:59 PM Reply	He's already hung it up, as has every other Hillary supporter. Look, I have no use for the vast majority of idiotic attacks she's endured from the Republican Party. I am sympathetic to the call for her to release the transcripts of what she said to the banksters behind closed doors, since she's claimed that she "went down there and told them to cut it out." The truth is that she, herself, says her political core is conservatism and that she is proud of having been a Goldwater Girl. Most psychologists will tell you that your core values do not change much from what they were when you were 10 years old. Sometimes they're moderated, but they're never abandoned. Her husband self-described as an Eisenhower Republican. Bernie is running on what would have been considered standard Democratic Party principles pre-Carter. The SDLC hijacked the Democratic Party and turned it into the "Republican Lite" party. Especially during the primaries, anyone who supports one of the SDLC-backed asshat Republicans has already given up the ship. It will never serve the progressives, liberals of even conservative Democrats (like Jimmy Carter) to allow the Republican cancer in the Democratic Party to continue untreated. What you're saying by voting for Hillary is that you approve of the Republican takeover of the Democratic Party. So, no, don't scold me for saying "I'd rather take a chance on a man whom I at least know is not beholding to the monied class (because he was born into and remains in that class already) or see everything burn down (because the current system is only working for fewer than one in twenty of us) than to forever abandon any hope the Democratic Party can return to what it once was." I like Drum, but here he is encouraging us to capitulate, as he apparently has.
Post #408,443 by rcareaga 2/28/16 10:18:18 PM 2/28/16 10:18:18 PM Reply	most psychologists, my arse "Most psychologists will tell you that your core values do not change much from what they were when you were 10 years old." Hell, at ten I was disappointed when Nixon lost his bid for the California governorship. By the time he was elected president I was sixteen and knew he was bad news, although I was disposed to be philosophical on "heighten the contradictions" grounds, not that I would have so described it at the time. Hell, I know people who, well into voting majority age, enthusiastically went for Nader sixteen years ago and now bitterly repent of that folly. But you're saying that the political outlook of the teenaged Hillary Rodham have been fixed for all time in "Conscience of a Conservative" amber? I ain't buying it. That wasn't a Goldwater Girl (if you have the context for that remark, by the way, I'd appreciate seeing it, but I suspect it might not frame the narrative you're trying to advance as starkly as it serves your premise in isolation) who spoke at the Wellesley commencement, or who served on the staff of the House Judiciary Committee during the 73-74 hearings, or who earlier interned with Bob Treuhaft's firm in Oakland.* Look, there's a legitimate case to be argued to the effect that the woman has compromised her earlier principles, but that's not enough for you, is it? cordially, Treuhaft's wife was Jessica Mitford, who, while at one time a red-fanged commie herself, was also Oswald Mosley's freaking sister-in-law!* So that's like, one degree of separation between the Hillabeast and the leader of the British Union of Fascists! Ol' Jonah Goldberg missed a bet if he didn't work that one into his magisterial comic opus Liberal Fascism.
Post #408,446 by a6l6e6x 2/28/16 11:32:20 PM 2/28/16 11:32:20 PM Reply	Agreement with Rand here. I voted for Goldwater! It was the first presidential election where I could vote. It wasn't easy because of the abuse he had heaped on Nelson Rockefeller (NY Guv) whom I much preferred. I considered Dems to be soft on communism. And in those days conservatives focused on fiscal issues. I would pretty much never be voting for a Republican these days. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #408,449 by Another Scott 2/29/16 7:09:45 AM 2/29/16 7:09:45 AM Reply	Unpossible!!
Post #408,451 by mmoffitt 2/29/16 9:36:39 AM 2/29/16 9:47:57 AM Reply	Not surprised you missed it. Being a "Settle for Hillary" fan such as you are, like most in that Kampf, likely avoid anything that might disparage dear leaderess. But, here you go. After listening to this, I'm sure you'll apologize for accusing me of mischaracterization. http://usuncut.com/politics/npr-interview-hillary-clinton-was-proud-of-her-conservatism/ Edit: And just ONE MINOR NIT. I'm not suggesting anyone's political views don't change over time, I said "core values" which is exactly what I've been told by psychologists who were trying to help me adjust to life in Murica after having been corrupted by my personal experiences in the USSR. But the quote at issue here did NOT COME from a 10 year old Hillary. It came from a FORTY-NINE YEAR OLD Hillary Clinton. You should really take an honest look at who you are supporting. Edited by mmoffitt Feb. 29, 2016, 09:47:57 AM EST Expand All History
Post #408,453 by Another Scott 2/29/16 12:17:47 PM 2/29/16 12:17:47 PM Reply	"Uncut" 30 second interview snippet. Hmm... I'd like to see the whole thing. Unfortunately, I couldn't quickly dig it out of NPR's WE Saturday archives, and Google for the quote only goes back 5 days. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #408,457 by mmoffitt 2/29/16 2:04:31 PM 2/29/16 2:04:31 PM Reply	Interesting. http://www.npr.org/programs/weekend-edition-saturday/archive?date=1-13-1996 returns March, 1995. I'm still looking, but does it matter? She wasn't "proud" to have been a Goldwater Girl, but "very proud". It amazes me how the Clinton apologists will pick at the tiniest of nits in support of her.
Post #408,459 by mmoffitt 2/29/16 2:20:23 PM 2/29/16 2:20:23 PM Reply	Email sent to NPR. I wrote the following to NPR on their site to email them questions: Hello, There are a plethora of links on the Internet to sites with 30 to 35 second excerpts of an interview Weekend Edition conducted with Hillary Clinton on January 13, 1996. Is a full transcript available? I'm sure I'm not the only person to ask and I suppose I could ask the Clinton Campaign, but they seem to be extraordinarily opposed to any sort of transcript release. Thank you in advance. Best regards, ... I'll let you know if they respond.
Post #408,461 by Another Scott 2/29/16 3:17:58 PM 2/29/16 3:17:58 PM Reply	rofl. Nice editorializing. :-) Thanks very much.
Post #408,481 by Another Scott 2/29/16 8:32:36 PM 2/29/16 8:32:36 PM Reply	The Clinton Library has the transcript. Clinton Library: PDF (500 kB with poor OCR) The segment in question is on page 6, but the whole interview is interesting. The whole section in question is (typos mine): SIMON: Would you ever run for office yourself? Do you ever think about that? CLINTON: Oh, I don't think so. No. SIMON: I mean did you ever, back in the '60s, between when, I believe, you were a Goldwater Girl... CLINTON: That's right. SIMON: ... and whatever you became politically. CLINTON: That's right. And I feel like my political beliefs are rooted in the conservatism that I was raised with. I don't recognize this new brand of Republicanism that's afoot now, which I consider to be very reactionary, not conservative, in many respects. I'm very proud that I was a Goldwater Girl. And then my political beliefs changed over time, but I've always thought that the role of citizen, the role of advocate, were as important in our democracy as running for office, and so it's not anything I've ever, you know, seriously considered. I think it's pretty clear what she was saying. YMMV. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #408,492 by mmoffitt 3/1/16 8:18:58 AM 3/1/16 8:18:58 AM Reply	It's not clear to me that she's disavowing having supported Goldwater. Her "views changed", but in what way and to what extent? She thinks its important to be a citizen advocate, but she doesn't think she'll run for office. That's fine, but doesn't speak to her philosophy. Today she does not want the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall. That's consistent with a Goldwater position. Her support (until she reversed herself for political expediency) for the TPP is also in keeping with Goldwater philosophy. How about her vote on the pro-banking bankruptcy bill? A solid Goldwater thing to do. The vote for the Iraq War? Barry would have certainly approved. There are almost countless examples of how Clinton's political philosophy has actually not changed all that much since she was a Goldwater Girl. I read the whole thing and with regard to the Goldwater Girl comment, I don't see how a fair reading would lead one to conclude that she, in anyway, disavowed her "political roots" being conservative.
Post #408,501 by Ashton 3/1/16 3:16:07 PM 3/1/16 3:16:07 PM Reply	..We never know where ANY one of these, salivating at the lobby to Massive-Power ... really STAND Look at the disappointments of BHO's somewhat schizophrenic support of Patriot-Act like cupidity + euphemism + ƒeare-backed dissembling.. Even though somewhat ameliorated by his consistency in some other crucial areas of wordplay: he had been deceptive in a premeditated mien. Alas, your disdain may well prove to have derived from no exaggeration in your assessment of her inner-demons. Only hindsight could settle such a conjecture. Natch: by then, it's too-Fucking-Late. Catch 2016. AGAIN! (Thus far, I believe that Bernie's blind-spots on some important issues ... do not seem related to the dissembling which can be laid/repeatedly at Hillary's manifest behavior.) ... that is sometimes reminiscent of the jibe at Tricky Dick: being like a $2 bill in the wind. You never know which side will land Face-Up. What if she were more-agile at ..keeeping all those plates spinning in her skit on the burlesque stage-play? Hit that arm doing the twirling? and all the plates hit the stage, at once. Lousy metaphor for human "politics" innit? Feeds the cynic in everyone/maybe IT IS time to bite bullet and voir dire? Jeez ... ... if we really ARE "getting the government WE Deserve.." How/where-to !?! can we even slink away?
Post #408,463 by rcareaga 2/29/16 3:41:58 PM 2/29/16 3:41:58 PM Reply	Re: Not surprised you missed it. Tell me again what a Goldwater Girl was doing working for Bob Treuhaft? cordially,
Post #408,468 by mmoffitt 2/29/16 4:14:27 PM 2/29/16 4:14:27 PM Reply	If you tell me why (at 49) she was "very proud" to have been a Goldwater Girl.
Post #408,473 by rcareaga 2/29/16 4:58:22 PM 2/29/16 4:58:22 PM Reply	Re: If you tell me why (at 49) she was "very proud" to have been a Goldwater Girl. Neither of us know the answer to that question. I think it unlikely that at 49 she meant that she remained unwavering in support of the GOP 1964 platform: what possible political advantage could have accrued to this cunning Machiavellian shrew by making such a statement. Absent any more context than you have thus far provided, I might guess that she took pride at having been politically engaged in that period, and was artless in the phrasing. Because your explanation does not account for her political and cultural trajectory between 1964 and now. Why did Hillary Rodham look and speak like this and not like this? Really, mmoffitt, this is a rather dodgy approach for you to take: it isn't necessary to admire Clinton in order to find ludicrous your notion that she's been an unrepentant Goldwaterite all these years (or a kind of Manchurian candidate biding her time until, attaining supreme power by deceit, she can at last enact Phyllis Schlafly's agenda from A Choice Not an Echo). You begin to sound a little unhinged on the subject, rather like your True Believer counterparts on the right who believe that Kenyan-born Obama was groomed from conception, beginning with phony birth notices planted in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin in 1961, to place this country under the yoke of Marxist Sharia law. cordially,
Post #408,477 by mmoffitt 2/29/16 7:41:38 PM 2/29/16 7:41:38 PM Reply	I'm sorry, I sound like that by quoting her? There is no context, absolutely NONE, in which the statement, "I am very proud to have been a Goldwater Girl" can be acceptable. If, 20 years hence, David Duke were to change his stripes slightly and support the policies of say, Kasich, would you forgive him for saying, "I am very proud to have been a member of the KKK?" For me, being "very proud to have been a Goldwater supporter" and/or "very proud of Kissinger's blessing" is indistinguishable from being "very proud of having been a KKK member." The positions are equally repugnant and very, very anti-Democratic.
Post #408,482 by Another Scott 2/29/16 8:33:03 PM 2/29/16 8:33:03 PM Reply	See above for the full transcript.
Post #408,484 by rcareaga 2/29/16 10:33:08 PM 2/29/16 10:33:08 PM Reply	sorry, don't you see? There can be no possible extenuating context for the vilest pronouncement ever made by a public figure in the United States since World War II. I mean, sheesh, I'm not terribly invested in the woman's political fortunes at the moment except insofar as wishing for her to go into the general election in as strong a position as possible if it should fall out that she becomes the Democratic nominee, so I'm not going to keep going back and forth with mmoffitt on this, but it's a subject on which he's rapidly becoming nutso. cordially,
Post #408,490 by pwhysall 3/1/16 1:40:20 AM 3/1/16 1:40:20 AM Reply	Re: sorry, don't you see? the vilest pronouncement ever made by a public figure in the United States since World War II. It's this sort of hyperbowl that makes you sound, well, a bit frothy.
Post #408,494 by malraux 3/1/16 8:34:55 AM 3/1/16 8:34:55 AM Reply	... Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #408,498 by boxley 3/1/16 11:26:42 AM 3/1/16 11:26:42 AM Reply	thats just spray from the churning always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #408,500 by Ashton 3/1/16 2:47:26 PM 3/1/16 2:47:26 PM Reply	You made your [Referent-perp] uncertain. here? Was that intentional or a preterite kinda gotcha..? As to--merely--the sobriquet vilest [!] in this characterization of someone's utterance: well ... within the mega-liters of bile ever heard since tykehood, then selected for their Vileness Quotient, I daresay that I've heard stuff too stomach churning ever to repeat, even against a one's historical Enemy/of serious kind. I also wonder if anyone here has ever read through.. Goldwater's [Heh: the precursor of Auric Goldfinger] The Conscience of a Conservative? (I know that I fled from any curiosity of its steamy content, in those times. And still. Carrion ..it's simmering in the cast-iron cauldron that was once Scalia's blood-pump (just a w.a.g. natch, that whole cavity may have been just ... empty.) But did Anton-babe ever reach the pinnacle of Vile?
Post #408,502 by rcareaga 3/1/16 3:31:33 PM 3/1/16 3:31:33 PM Reply	Re: You made your [Referent-perp] uncertain... I was phrasing for garish effect, and obviously to his disadvantage, mmoffitt's characterization of Mrs. C's "Goldwater girl" remark. He probably doesn't think of it in terms quite so dire, but he appears fixated upon it, and has blown a statement that many might think of negligible importance into something the size of a stratocumulus, and about as solid. cordially,
Post #408,504 by Ashton 3/1/16 4:00:44 PM 3/1/16 4:00:44 PM Reply	Yes that was my take. But it seemed that Peter had er, directed his casuistry at the Messenger (you) and not at the perp appropriate to this thread. (Alas, for being as hyperbolic too at times) ..as anyone who got a sign wrong in an expression he thought parabolic?--Oh! those conic sections--hyperbolas surround us. Methinks that we dwell within a world quite more hyper- than not, since the very prefix forces us to contemplate 1/0 and other math simulations of our plight. aka We still haven't the Foggiest 'where' dwells our so-called Consciousness (or I have entirely missed the awarding of that Nobel.) Hillary doesn't know, either.
Post #408,506 by pwhysall 3/2/16 12:10:54 AM 3/2/16 12:10:54 AM Reply	Indeed. Was posted before coffee. Apols.
Post #408,507 by rcareaga 3/2/16 1:11:53 AM 3/2/16 1:11:53 AM Reply	De nada The thread had become somewhat convolute. The spousette speaks of an attorney she's worked with who reduces hostile witnesses to stammering imbecility by such means: "Isn't it true that you would never have failed to neglect this elementary precaution had you not denied to my client that your assurances were not in fact to be doubted unless, etc., etc." Where was I? cordially,
Post #408,508 by Another Scott 3/2/16 8:40:34 AM 3/2/16 8:40:34 AM Reply	Oooh. That's evil. :-)
Post #408,511 by rcareaga 3/2/16 10:17:05 AM 3/2/16 10:17:05 AM Reply	And when the witness attempted his halting response "Answer the question! Yes or no?" adversarially,
Post #408,518 by boxley 3/2/16 1:29:09 PM 3/2/16 1:29:35 PM Reply	"two sugars with cream please" would be my answer of course I has been expert witness always look out for number one and don't step in number two Edited by boxley March 2, 2016, 01:29:35 PM EST Expand All History
Post #408,509 by mmoffitt 3/2/16 8:48:37 AM 3/2/16 8:48:37 AM Reply	Thanks. No, he doesn't. Bernie not winning Massachusetts is telling. Looks like the oligarchy is here to stay. Pity. Trump will get my vote if nominated. Otherwise I'll sit it out and buy a big bag of popcorn for the next four years while taking some solace in the knowledge that it will all collapse of its own weight eventually.
Post #408,515 by Another Scott 3/2/16 11:28:56 AM 3/2/16 11:28:56 AM Reply	Make sure you let your daughter know that you're Ok with Trump replacing RBG. :-/
Post #408,523 by mmoffitt 3/2/16 3:38:28 PM 3/2/16 3:38:28 PM Reply	Heh. I'm not "okay" with Hillary doing that.
Post #408,532 by Another Scott 3/2/16 10:02:22 PM 3/2/16 10:02:22 PM Reply	Yeah, but what does your daughter think.
Post #408,538 by mmoffitt 3/3/16 8:40:14 AM 3/3/16 8:40:14 AM Reply	I'll ask. But, ... the one that started out as a Hillary supporter has stopped being one. She repeated some half-truths and lies to me that Hillary's Kampf had published. When I pointed her to references refuting those claims, she said, "Damn. If she's got to lie when she's the overwhelming favorite, she'll lie about everything all the time." She's also not thrilled about her making $450,000.00/hour talking to banksters and then not letting us know what she said behind closed doors. I think Hillary's pretty much made her give up on her government, so it will be interesting to see if she has an opinion on the Supreme Court appointments. I'll try to catch her tonight to ask.
Post #408,540 by Another Scott 3/3/16 8:45:39 AM 3/3/16 8:45:39 AM Reply	Thanks for indulging me. :-) They all have issues - yes, even Bernie. Politicians have to balance interests - it's the nature of the job. Cheers, Scott.
Post #408,543 by boxley 3/3/16 10:44:02 AM 3/3/16 10:44:02 AM Reply	she doesnt balance, she charges :-) always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #408,526 by boxley 3/2/16 5:25:53 PM 3/2/16 5:25:53 PM Reply	Actually I think he would produce a better pick than hillary He would pick a judge, she would open it up to the highest bidder. always look out for number one and don't step in number two

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