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New Yup.
Rapidly driving away from the initial stop, then instantly jumping out of the truck when it hit the snow bank and running several steps from it was an indication that he didn't want to be arrested, and his reaching for the gun in his pocket showed that he was willing to use violence to prevent it if he could. It wasn't some misunderstanding about his intentions.

Adam Silverman:

Updated: I Just went back and rewatched the video of the shooting. Its very clear. There was an agent just on the left side of the road block but moving towards the snow back along the road. When he swerved to avoid the spike strip and then plowed the car into the snowbank on the side of the road the vehicle was driving straight at the agent. The agent had to dive to his right to avoid being hit and just barely got out of the way. At this point one of the state troopers was back towards the tree line on the vehicles left. Finicum dismounted the vehicle, clearly heard the officer back towards the right rear of the vehicle shout commands at him because he swung in an arc to his to face him with his arms out akimbo and then reached across his body inside the left side of his coat. At this point he circles again, clearly in response to the presence of the second trooper who had come up from the tree line, his arms again akimbo in the pivot and then his right arm reaching across his body inside the left side of his coat. It appears he reached inside his coat at least four times. He then seems to freeze for a second, and then quickly turns back to the second officer closer to the tree line, reached inside his coat again, and then he was shot.


I'm sorry he was so determined to get killed. I'm glad no one else was hurt, and that they had clear video of what happened.

Cheers,
Scott.
New One of these things is not like the others
The Bundys, in a previous standoff, pointed weapons at government officials. They have stated repeatedly that they would defend themselves if anyone tried to remove them. The authorities know what their intentions are.

Tamir Rice was playing with a toy gun that looked real enough you might mistake it for a real gun. (The person who called 911 said they thought it was a toy, but the dispatcher didn't share that detail.) The police who rolled up and immediately shot him said they didn't know what he might be planning. As though that is a reason to shoot.
--

Drew
New clearly you fail to see the difference
...between a patriot and a vicious young urban thug.

cordially,
New Oh, come on
In the Tamir Rice case, the police analysed the situation, carefully assessing the threat and the proportional response, for two long, long seconds before shooting the shit out of a twelve-year-old boy holding a toy gun.

What do you liberals even want? Why do you hate America?
New I know you're not actually disagreeing, but ...
As bad as it is that they did it, my comment was more about their excuse: "We didn't know what he was planning to do."

How the actual fuck does anyone think that's a reason for shooting someone?
--

Drew
New the issue is "they feared for their lives"
we have a fuckton of scared shitless cops. If you are that scared shitless find another line of work please.
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New This.
They have been trained to fear the people they're supposed to "serve and protect". They've been trained that someone not instantly acting on a command is most likely a deadly threat.

And too many police departments are filled with people who just want to play bang-bang. Actual intelligence and empathy is seemingly regarded as a bad characteristic for new recruits.

There's lots of blame to go around (the individual cops, the culture in police departments, the steroids, the training, the lack of availability of disabling tools that don't risk death, the vast numbers of guns in America, the lack of drug and mental health treatment, the lack of jobs and housing, etc.). I hope that the events over the last few years will finally get departments to change their hiring, their training, and their whole mindset about what their purpose is. It's not to be domestic warrior. It's to serve and protect. But that will take money, and we know how difficult increasing funding is...

Cheers,
Scott.
New Agree, but don't let the feds off the hook.
They've been pushing an agenda of fear to retain their power on all of us. Bound to have affected cops, too.
New That covers some cases.
Another aspect has to do with the fact that the Marine Corps is about the only federally funded job program still running. When they are discharged, a lot of them become cops. They still get to carry guns and give orders with the expectation of an obsequious response. It goes as part of the culture. Every third pickup truck around here has a Marine decal on it and the operators general appear to have a contempt for "those others". I suspect that training for operations in Vietnam, South America, and the mid east has dehumanized "those others" to the point where they can be shot out of hand for any disobedience.
Now a lot of them are cops, and we are "those others". They do not regard us with fear, but contempt.
"Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable."
~ AMBROSE BIERCE
(1842-1914)
New Indeed. That is a big problem, too.
New an aside, job corps is alive and well
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
     the bloodthirsty tyrant Obama... - (rcareaga) - (18)
         It's good that it seems to be ending. - (Another Scott) - (17)
             At least one of them said to be making a "hard stand" at the Refuge. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                 At least they can go to Finicum's wake... -NT - (hnick) - (1)
                     ;^> -NT - (Ashton)
             It doesn't matter. - (Andrew Grygus) - (13)
                 "Hands up, don't shoot!" - (a6l6e6x)
                 from the footage I've seen - (rcareaga) - (11)
                     Yup. - (Another Scott) - (10)
                         One of these things is not like the others - (drook) - (9)
                             clearly you fail to see the difference - (rcareaga)
                             Oh, come on - (pwhysall) - (7)
                                 I know you're not actually disagreeing, but ... - (drook) - (6)
                                     the issue is "they feared for their lives" - (boxley) - (5)
                                         This. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                             Agree, but don't let the feds off the hook. - (mmoffitt)
                                             That covers some cases. - (hnick) - (2)
                                                 Indeed. That is a big problem, too. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                 an aside, job corps is alive and well -NT - (boxley)

Please... I can't take this kind of stimulation! I got Disney tunes running all through my head at just the thought of it.
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