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New Individual belongings versus private property.
Yes, I owned my clothes. No one else wanted them. Even socialism recognises that people needed to own _something_ . But, say you have a clothing drive for suffering Vietnamese children. Try not to bring some of your stuff. Ass-chewing at a Komsomol meeting is guaranteed. And if do not say that you "forgot", if you say "I need clothes for myself"... KGB will open a case.

Another thing about clothes: school uniform. You get a coupon for one set for whole year. Want to buy more? Tough. Want to wear something different to school? Much, much worse. My whole childhood I was wearing patched up pants - they were worn right through in a few months. Hardly a private property :)

By the time of Brezhnev, people were even allowed to buy cars. But, try to use yours as a taxi - you're dead meat (unless of course, you pay some bakshish in time). Selling of used cars is allowed only at state-owned places, using state as the middleman, at state-set prices. Of course, people talk to each other and some money is exchanged under the table. The "dealership" employees simply look the other way.

You're confusing what's happening with what's supposed to happen. People under socialism can have some individual stuf. And much more is allowed through corruption. Still more is allowed because the system realises it can't survive on its own principles. But the principles stay the same: you don't have anything that can't be sacrificed for the Radiant Future.
Collapse Edited by Arkadiy May 30, 2002, 07:06:14 PM EDT
Individual belongings versus privater property.
Yes, I owned my clothes. No one else wanted them. Even socialism recognises that people needed to own _something_ . But, say you have a clothing drive for suffering Vietnamese children. Try not to bring some of your stuff. Ass-chewing at a Komsomol meeting is guaranteed. And if do not say that you "forgot", if you say "I need clothes for myself"... KGB will open a case. Another thing about clothes: school uniform. You get a coupon for one set for whole year. Want to buy more? Tough. Want to wear something different to school? Much, much worse. My whole childhood I was wearing patched up pants - they were worn right through in a few months. Hardly a private property :) By the time of Brezhnev, people were even allowed to buy cars. But, try to use yours as a taxi - you're dead meat (unless of course, you pay some bakshish in time). Selling of used cars is allowed only at state-owned places, using state as the middleman, at state-set prices. Of course, people talk to each other and some money is exchanged under the table. The "dealership" employees simply look the other way. You're confusing what's happening with what's supposed to happen. People under socialism can have some individual stuf. And much more is allowed through corruption. Still more is allowed because the system realises it can't survive on its own principles. But the principles stay the same: you don't have anything that can't be sacrificed for the Radiant Future.
     How dead is the U.S. software industry? - (inthane-chan) - (90)
         You only need one job. Don't believe the hype. - (Another Scott)
         Pick a minor - (orion)
         It's not dead - (broomberg) - (87)
             It's pining for the Fjords! - (orion) - (68)
                 Good One, Orion!____ [but..___ look at the lovely plumage!] -NT - (Ashton)
                 Wrong analogy - (broomberg) - (66)
                     Okies... - (folkert)
                     Damn Politics! - (orion) - (31)
                         Sigh - (ben_tilly) - (30)
                             No new clog - (orion) - (29)
                                 You always have a choice. Always. Hang in there. -NT - (Another Scott) - (24)
                                     I have limited choices - (orion) - (22)
                                         You have lots of choices. - (Another Scott)
                                         You only have one choice - (boxley) - (2)
                                             Thanks Bill - (orion) - (1)
                                                 *smile* - (imric)
                                         Why do you seem so convinced that your wife is a bitch? - (CRConrad) - (17)
                                             If I lose the house - (orion) - (16)
                                                 But, Y the F wouldn't U live in SAME apt with wife & son ?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (15)
                                                     Why wouldn't I? - (orion) - (14)
                                                         What you're saying is, she'd let you starve. Nice marriage. -NT - (CRConrad) - (9)
                                                             nope, his pride not her problem -NT - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                 Yeah, but that's what HE is saying here. - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                                     Warehouse job - (orion) - (2)
                                                                         your last paragraph better be a humor - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                             Re: your last paragraph better be a humor - (orion)
                                                             No, what I am saying - (orion) - (3)
                                                                 could take a while anyway :) be good for you -NT - (boxley)
                                                                 What you're saying is pure fucking bullshit. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                     What are you saying? - (orion)
                                                         Just for curiousity... - (hnick) - (3)
                                                             Doesn't work in reality - (orion) - (2)
                                                                 Actually, it does - (hnick)
                                                                 Something to do in the meantime... - (Another Scott)
                                     I have limited choices - (orion)
                                 You always have more choices - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                     What I have been doing - (orion) - (2)
                                         The Public Face versus The Private Face. - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                             I am doing what I can to survive - (orion)
                     Your description seems accurate. But the 'Plan' is fscked. - (Ashton) - (32)
                         And your alternative is? - (broomberg) - (31)
                             "Unless you disagree with basic property rights" - (Ashton) - (2)
                                 Godwin -NT - (broomberg) - (1)
                                     Re: Godwin: just history (German !=Nazi, one hoped) -NT - (Ashton)
                             Is it my imagination, or is that really... - (CRConrad) - (27)
                                 I dunno about founding fathers - (broomberg)
                                 Barry's assessment of how to work in this biz is correct - (boxley)
                                 It's not just us. - (mmoffitt) - (23)
                                     So much bull, so little time. - (Arkadiy) - (22)
                                         Shto? - (mmoffitt) - (21)
                                             You cannot be free without private property. - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                                                 How about "kak?" -NT - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                     "kak" is "how" while "chto" is "what". -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
                                                         I know. I was kidding. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                             I tried a cut and paste of Russian from pravda.ru ... - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                 Hmm.. Cyrillic in Moz? - (Ashton)
                                                             Brezhnev... - (Arkadiy)
                                             This is just sooo rich! - (Arkadiy) - (13)
                                                 Nyet. - (mmoffitt) - (12)
                                                     Agreed. - (Arkadiy) - (11)
                                                         No, I wouldn't. - (mmoffitt) - (10)
                                                             The freedom to read requires the freedom to own the book - (Arkadiy) - (9)
                                                                 Do you "own" library books? - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                     cuba does not recognise personal property - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                         Clarification. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                         Bullshit, I think. (Goes for the Soviet Union too, BTW.) - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                             Individual belongings versus private property. - (Arkadiy)
                                                                     No. Library does. - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                         Ah, but who owns the library? The People do ;-) - (mmoffitt)
                                                                         Guess I don't see any real argument here. - (Ashton)
                                                                 And she did finish that book (I saw her) ;-) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                 Property rights - (orion)
             Right on; most software isn't shrink wrapped - (tonytib)
             You misunderstand my situation. - (inthane-chan) - (8)
                 Go be a firefighter - (tseliot)
                 What do you know... - (rsf) - (6)
                     It's also who you know - (tonytib) - (5)
                         Well, now, that's the rub, ain't it? - (inthane-chan) - (4)
                             Can you stay in school for another year? - (rsf) - (1)
                                 Unfortunately, no. - (inthane-chan)
                             Well, I'll keep a look out - (tonytib)
                             Only a few angles to offer.. - (Ashton)
             Looks 'tits up' to me. - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                 I dunno, you tell me - (broomberg) - (6)
                     HOLY ****! - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                         That's what I thought - (broomberg)
                     Not too shabby - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                         Based on your description - (broomberg) - (1)
                             Based on your.... - (folkert)
                     Same here, pretty much. - (admin)

Only you would go for the plague.
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