It's all OK now. The CEO said he's sorry!

Post #404,754 by a6l6e6x 9/21/15 9:25:21 AM Reply	It's all OK now. The CEO said he's sorry! BBC: "I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public," Martin Winterkorn said. He has launched an investigation into the device that allowed VW cars to emit less during tests than they would while driving normally. The company's shares were down 19% in Frankfurt by lunchtime. VW has stopped selling the relevant diesel models in the US, where diesel cars account for about a quarter of sales. So, it's time to punish the innocent. Find the engineer that followed the spec he was given and coded the fraud. But, a $37,500 fine for any single vehicle is a bit steep. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #404,755 by Another Scott 9/21/15 10:30:05 AM Reply	As I read it, the $37,500 is per day of non-compliance, not per car. http://www2.epa.gov/enforcement/rcra-corrective-action-enforcement-authorities But that's only $110M (365 x 37500 x 8 years). But maybe they can stack the penalties on top of each other, or something. This is a big Biden deal, and VW needs to fix it. There was a story that I read yesterday that VW may pull out of the US market. I assume they will do everything in their power not to have to do that. Cheers, Scott.
Post #404,757 by Another Scott 9/21/15 11:52:57 AM Reply	Of course, the stories explicitly say per car, so ... :-/ Reuters: Volkswagen can face civil penalties of $37,500 for each vehicle not in compliance with federal clean air rules. There are 482,000 four-cylinder VW and Audi diesel cars sold since 2008 involved in the allegations. If each car involved is found to be in noncompliance, the penalty could be $18 billion, an EPA official confirmed on the teleconference. I need to fully wake up before posting. :-/ Cheers, Scott.
Post #404,759 by a6l6e6x 9/21/15 4:21:49 PM Reply	Yah, what he said! :) Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #404,761 by Ashton 9/21/15 4:41:59 PM Reply	I think it's absurd to imagine that such a plan could possibly be implemented without the full recognizance of the whole CIEIO fraternity-of-thieves. Unlike the stupidities around ignition switch designs, at every stage of this idea, from concept to full-implementation: this was a premeditated, misanthropic and clearly illegal game, known to corporate-Many. stupidities like: failing to note that some people cary oodles of keys, flashlights and such in company with their ignition key, all of them dangling--I know one such as this --so the load on key/lock slot and pin assemblies can exceed any one-key calcs of wear rates by orders/magnitude. Duh. Let's see if they decide--based on Max-$fines alone--to throw the US/VW franchise under the (Audi?) bus ... after all, Bernd Rosemeyer got creamed in one of those original Auto Union monsters (whose handling you had to gauge while sitting like a bus-driver at the far front.) The Peoples' Car was spawned IIRC about the same time. But can Audi develop less-l33t models for the proles? (We know that BMW wouldn't even try.)
Post #404,771 by boxley 9/22/15 9:16:00 AM Reply	is it? no idea if true, was talking to a retired petro chemist who claimed that the epa's goal over the years was to make USA diesel unburnable to force manufacturers to move to a different fuel system. He spoke at length about the properties of the fuel and what the epa demanded as opposed to the rest of the world. Perhaps that is why only a few manufacturers sell diesels here, and they have to game the system. you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #404,780 by lincoln 9/22/15 1:56:42 PM Reply	And is your "retired petro chemist" a Tea Party member? Someone who hates the government, hates the EPA, and believes in the "free enterprise" system to work perfectly? Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #404,783 by boxley 9/22/15 2:49:28 PM Reply	no, catholic liberal you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #404,897 by lincoln 9/25/15 2:44:28 PM Reply	I've never met a liberal that wanted to eliminate the EPA. He's a Republican at the least; he's just not brave enough to admit it. Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #404,905 by boxley 9/25/15 3:19:19 PM Reply	your loss you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #404,974 by mmoffitt 9/28/15 8:17:22 AM Reply	You claim to be a "liberal" and yet support a Nixon created entity?
Post #404,980 by lincoln 9/28/15 10:43:12 AM Reply	Hey, even crooks can do something good once in their lives Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #404,795 by Another Scott 9/22/15 4:51:05 PM Reply	Doesn't smell right. Ebsco from 2000: Tight Sulfur Cap on Diesel Fuel Draws Major Industry Opposition AUTHOR(S)Hess, Glenn PUB. DATE May 2000 SOURCE Chemical Market Reporter;05/29/2000, Vol. 257 Issue 22, p18 SOURCE TYPE Trade Publication DOC. TYPE Article ABSTRACT Deals with the opposition of major industries on the plan of the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to require the removal of sulfur from diesel fuel. Details on the plan of the agency; Impact of the plan to the oil and trucking industries; Comment from Carol Browner, EPA administrator. A good EPA page from that time frame with a PDF on their thinking and the proposed rules and reactions to it is here. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #404,798 by boxley 9/22/15 6:21:47 PM Reply	dunno about smell but sulpher burns hot, take it out harder to burn you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #404,799 by Another Scott 9/22/15 6:37:11 PM Reply	Not the way it works. What is clean diesel?: Effective Emissions Control Technology Introduction of ultra-low sulfur diesel fuels for both on- and off-road applications has been a central part of the new clean diesel system designed to meet near zero emissions standards. With the introduction of lower sulfur diesel fuel, a number of exhaust treatment systems such as particulate filters, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR), selective catalyst reduction (SCR) and diesel oxidation catalysts (DOC) can further reduce emissions from diesel engines. The installation of various emission control technologies may also improve emissions from older diesel engines through retrofit capabilities. Read more about retrofit capabilities to reduce emissions from older vehicles and equipment. Sulfur makes SO2 and other sulfur oxides when burned, which cause acid rain, in addition to wreaking havoc with emissions control systems via poisoning catalytic converters and the like. It's not an issue with how easy the fuel is to burn. That's my understanding anyway. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #404,800 by boxley 9/22/15 7:11:57 PM Reply	kinda makes my point, regulators make the cars run like crap, what the retired guy said you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #404,802 by Another Scott 9/22/15 7:23:00 PM Reply	Um, modern diesels are great compared to, say, a 1980 Rabbit diesel. You can't have a modern diesel with crap fuel. I'm happy we're no longer using something approaching bunker fuel in cars any more: Britain and other European governments have been accused of underestimating the health risks from shipping pollution following research which shows that one giant container ship can emit almost the same amount of cancer and asthma-causing chemicals as 50m cars. Confidential data from maritime industry insiders based on engine size and the quality of fuel typically used by ships and cars shows that just 15 of the world's biggest ships may now emit as much pollution as all the world's 760m cars. Low-grade ship bunker fuel (or fuel oil) has up to 2,000 times the sulphur content of diesel fuel used in US and European automobiles. YMMV. ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #404,806 by scoenye 9/22/15 9:09:52 PM Reply	Burning point is no criterion for use in a Diesel engine https://books.google.com/books?id=5mofAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA106&lpg=RA1-PA106&source=bl&ots=-62284S8qz&sig=kfTDjWhLXn93_Q0Wb-xP3PYXb40&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEsQ6AEwB2oVChMIyc_AtfaLyAIVy3o-Ch0tyQ-6#v=onepage&q&f=false Published by the Maryland Refining Company in 1919. Can't suspect them of being Clean Air heathens ;-) But look at all the fun they had with high sulphur content even then...
Post #404,808 by Another Scott 9/22/15 9:32:52 PM Reply	Neat stuff. Thanks.
Post #404,809 by boxley 9/22/15 9:58:45 PM Reply	very nice you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #404,821 by a6l6e6x 9/23/15 11:07:07 AM Reply	The CEO is really sorry now! VW chief Martin Winterkorn resigns! Heard on CNBC. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov

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