Post #403,058
6/29/15 1:16:19 PM
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Let me explain
To a certain segment of the population, the CSA battle flag says "Pride and Heritage" merely.
To another segment, it says "White Pride and Heritage, and we resent that we were compelled to give up on the Jim Crow laws."
And to another segment, readily identifiable by visual means (and demographically represented above and beyond the national average within the states where that ignoble banner has lately waved), it says "Fuck you," and this is certainly the intent of segment 2.
Do we ban the Dixie Swastika? No. But its display on private property should draw the same level of derision that flying the Nazi flag would elicit today, and if it's flown on public premises, then the commonweal can't claim that the State endorses segment 1 only while disavowing segments 2 and 3. That would be like Wisconsin hoisting the Hakenkreuz over the state capitol in Madison and passing it off as a tribute to the state's German-descended population.
cordially,
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Post #403,075
6/29/15 3:09:38 PM
6/29/15 3:10:10 PM
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like I expressed before it should be displayed at the museum not the capital
does la familia wave the mexican flag? Does that mean everyone who waves that flag is a narco trafficant? Excepting the donald of coarse. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Edited by boxley
June 29, 2015, 03:10:10 PM EDT
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Post #403,078
6/29/15 3:42:08 PM
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Re: Donald the Coarse.
NBC Tells Trump He's Fired! NBC -- whose parent company is NBCUniversal, a subsidiary of Comcast Corporation (NASDAQ:CMCSA) -- announced earlier it is ending its relationship with Donald Trump over "derogatory statements" Mr. Trump made "regarding immigrants." While Trump had already said he would not return to do another season of "The Celebrity Apprentice" due to his presidential bid, the broadcaster said it will no longer air the Miss USA and Miss Universe Pageants, which are a joint venture by the two. It's not often I could agree with Comcast! Alex
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
-- Isaac Asimov
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Post #403,082
6/29/15 4:41:01 PM
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I'm shocked, *shocked*...
to find you advancing a disingenuous argument. True statement: the Mexican flag was not devised to serve as a symbol of, nor was the Mexican government founded on the principal of, the sale and transport of narcotics. Swap "Confederate" for "Mexican" and "human beings" for "narcotics" and this statement ceases to be true. Let's go back to the Cornerstone Speech once again, since the last time didn't penetrate: The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
. . . look with confidence to the ultimate universal acknowledgement of the truths upon which our system rests? It is the first government ever instituted upon the principles in strict conformity to nature, and the ordination of Providence, in furnishing the materials of human society. Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature's laws. Note too that almost all of the state secession documents explicitly second these sentiments, and reference the preservation of slavery as the moral imperative behind the sundering of the Union. "States' rights" my bleeding mestizo ass. To call your argument "disingenuous" as I have is to go an extra mile or so in the service of tact, notwithstanding several pithier terms lying along the road only a few yards along. cordialmente,
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Post #403,086
6/29/15 5:18:20 PM
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I'm shocked, *shocked*...
that the north repeatedly declined to reimburse the south and replace their wealth with something other than slaves prior to the war, and indeed kept their own slaves enslaved well past 1865 your thunderous howling about what both sides felt legal, fair, and just, is noise not signal.
The north wanted to destroy the economy of the south and extract resources. To end slavery was to strip the south of their wealth for the north's gain. What happened after the war? Exactly what the north wanted. Everything for pennies on the dollar. Ownership transferred to people from boston and new york.
As for the poor ex slaves, their new northern masters kicked them out of their homes and instituted a new slavery called sharecropping so the yankee overlords didnt even have to be responsible to even feed them. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,090
6/29/15 5:59:26 PM
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Gosh, you're right
I can't imagine why the niggers get so upset at the display of the CSA battle flag. Must be all that Yankee propaganda they've absorbed, since the poor pickaninnies obviously ain't got the smarts to apply your powers of historical analysis, amirite?
contritely,
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Post #403,092
6/29/15 6:50:26 PM
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some of them even proudly display it in their collitch dorm rooms
apparently they disagree with you as well. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,093
6/29/15 6:56:35 PM
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There are women in sub-saharan Africa...
...who willingly participate in the no-anaesthetic removal of the labia and subsequent stitching of the genitals of small girls.
So that makes FGM a-OK, yes or no?
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Post #403,096
6/29/15 7:05:44 PM
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dogsleds and man in a canue are radically different topics
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,095
6/29/15 7:05:41 PM
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Re: some of them even proudly display it in their collitch dorm rooms
Yeah, right. So if I can produce a Jew who has the swastika in his dorm room, this utterly absolves the symbol of any historical associations?
C'mon, box. Yer not even trying here.
contemptuously,
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Post #403,094
6/29/15 7:04:14 PM
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rages the contentious rand
another person of color who differs with you http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/06/black_veteran_a_son_of_the_sou.html#incart_related_storiesThe Confederacy, in its prime, never mounted the atrocities of the Trail of Tears or the Black Hills conspiracy. But it seems that all because a few cowards in bedsheets once hijacked the gorgeous colors of a banner so rich in history to terrorize and intimidate other Americans, we condemn the Southern cloth to oblivion as a misnamed symbol of hate. It doesn't matter that slaves outside of the declared boundaries remained enslaved in the North. Neither does it matter that many Southerners gave up plots of their property to house and provide compensable labor for black workers. It doesn't matter that Lincoln, who is often regarded as the liberator of enslaved blacks cared less for the welfare of slaves than for the sovereignty of an entire country. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,098
6/29/15 7:14:44 PM
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Once again
The revival of the CSA battle flag dates from the belated renewal of the federal government's assault on white privilege in the states of the former Confederacy half a century ago. Its display in living memory has entirely to do with white supremacy. Not with heritage. Not with pride. Entirely with we are forced to share our drinking fountains with the niggers, and this is an affront to our God-given privilege as white men.
You are on the wrong fucking side of history, box.
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Post #403,101
6/29/15 7:47:35 PM
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For example, the Brotherhood March in Forsyth County, GA.
Bloomberg: March 18 [, 2011] (Bloomberg) -- Alanda Waller admits she had some explaining to do three years ago when telling friends she moved her black family to a Georgia suburb once known as the picture of Southern racism.
Twenty-four years ago, Forsyth County introduced itself to the world as Ku Klux Klan-led protesters hurled rocks and racial epithets during a civil rights march, just after the Martin Luther King Jr. federal holiday. The New York Times headlined the clash and Oprah Winfrey came to town to tape an episode on race relations.
[...]
The “Brotherhood March” through Forsyth [in January 1987] was organized by Atlanta City Councilman Hosea Williams, who was with Martin Luther King Jr. when the civil rights leader was assassinated in 1968. Williams led dozens of black and white activists to Cumming, the county seat, to recognize the King holiday.
Counter-demonstrators threw rocks and beer bottles, turning back the group. Williams returned a week later with 20,000 marchers carrying signs saying “Ain’t Gonna Let Nobody Turn Us Around.” Jeering opponents waved Confederate flags. Police arrested sixty people and this time, the marchers reached Cumming.
The controversy drew television talk show host Oprah Winfrey to Forsyth to film a town hall meeting on race relations. One man in the audience used racial slurs and said he feared blacks coming to the county.
In the years since, Forsyth’s old guard has been diluted by tens of thousands of newcomers who may not know the county’s racial history, said Charles Bullock, a political scientist at the University of Georgia in Athens. Still others have died off, he said.
[...] A picture from the counter-demonstration on January 17, 1987:  Pointy white hats, also too, with lots of people not keeping their distance from them... WABE has a 5:17 audio interview on Forsyth's history. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #403,104
6/29/15 8:42:08 PM
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they fly the mexican flag there now, if you dont speak spanish good luck
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,105
6/29/15 8:51:57 PM
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I'm having trouble seeing the connection. :-/
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Post #403,106
6/29/15 8:55:27 PM
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cummins and surrounding area is heavily latino now.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,109
6/29/15 9:02:13 PM
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What, 2.8% or so? "Heavily"?
Wikipedia. The analogy would be better if Mexico colonized Forsyth County and kept non-Mexicans as slaves. But... Cheers, Scott.
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Post #403,111
6/29/15 9:14:16 PM
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sorry wasnt an anology, just an update on who lives there now
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,115
6/29/15 9:42:29 PM
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Things are changing there, but the county is still very white.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13/13117.html:9.6% Hispanic 3.3% Black The trend is good. When I left Georgia (mid '70s) there were literally almost no blacks in the county. There were occasional stories in the news about a black family trying to move there, and the troubles they faced. There's about 6400 now (out of ~ 200,000 people total). I still don't see how the Mexican flag applies to the topic though. ;-) Cheers, Scott.
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Post #403,119
6/29/15 10:55:49 PM
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this subthread was an aside, not germain to the topic
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,103
6/29/15 8:40:49 PM
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would be nice if you knew any, lets try the 4th grade
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,107
6/29/15 8:55:44 PM
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box, you have some good qualities
...but intellectual honesty is not among these. In four posts out of five you are a fucking troll.
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Post #403,110
6/29/15 9:03:51 PM
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? for someone who has not and willingly cannot be carried kicking and screaming
into any place that resides in the old south, you seem to state that you know everything about the people that live there. Yet you call me a troll? I am just pointing out your misconceptions as you bring them up. The post I was responding to was pontificating that the flag waving started out at the beginning of the civil rights era from 50 years ago. My post countered with a fact, that complements Courtney Daniels statement "But it seems that all because a few cowards in bedsheets once hijacked the gorgeous colors of a banner so rich in history to terrorize and intimidate other Americans, we condemn the Southern cloth to oblivion as a misnamed symbol of hate." a black man who lives in the center of Alabama. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,112
6/29/15 9:16:22 PM
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kicking and screaming
Courtney Daniels statement "But it seems that all because a few cowards in bedsheets once hijacked the gorgeous colors of a banner so rich in history to terrorize and intimidate other Americans, we condemn the Southern cloth to oblivion as a misnamed symbol of hate." a black man who lives in the center of Alabama. Let me find a Jew who apologizes for the Nazis. That will completely absolve the Third Reich, and render unjust the objections of everyone else to the display of the swastika, yes?
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Post #403,114
6/29/15 9:32:44 PM
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lets find an apache who loves the mexican flag
So where where the ovens to cook the blacks located? What was the plan to completely eliminate everyone of a dark hue? I guess they call it godwin for a reason. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,116
6/29/15 10:37:46 PM
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Re: lets find an apache who loves the mexican flag
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Post #403,121
6/29/15 11:01:01 PM
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right back atcha
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,138
6/30/15 9:36:56 AM
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Don't post stuff like that without a warning.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
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Post #403,139
6/30/15 9:42:18 AM
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apologies, will not do so
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,143
6/30/15 11:13:26 AM
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Hardly Mexican government policy, is it?
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Post #403,145
6/30/15 11:47:11 AM
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since they own the gummint, you decide
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,146
6/30/15 11:52:49 AM
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Ridiculous.
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Post #403,123
6/29/15 11:08:19 PM
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one more for grins yaqui
between he mexican government and the yankee government were going all hitler on these poor people. http://www.latinola.com/story.php?story=8208On February 7, 1894, the Los Angeles Times reported that "a campaign to the death" was being organized "against the rebellious Yaqui Indians of Northern Mexico." The newspaper stated that this campaign – under the command of General Luis Torres – would not end "until the Yaquis are exterminated, if that is the only way that they can be subdued." The mentality of the time seemed to offer only two options for the rebels: surrender and capitulation – or extermination! The same article indicated that General McCook of Denver – a friend of General Torres – would be prepared to deal with the Yaquis "if an escape is attempted across the border into the United States to form a union with their cousins, the Apaches." Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,124
6/29/15 11:12:44 PM
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Your point being?
The CSA battle flag is A-OK? Nuh-huh. Fuck you again.
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Post #403,125
6/29/15 11:16:38 PM
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your yankee white privilege is showing
look a few threads up. It doesnt belong on public property such as city halls, capitol building etc. Any one flying that flag privately has their own reasons but example after example shows isnt all about the racism no matter how much you wish and pray and stamp your feet. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,126
6/29/15 11:19:30 PM
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yankee white privilege remains
The awareness, to which you apparently remain blind, that the CSA battle flag conveys to 99% of black folk the message: "Fuck all of you, and we wish you were slaves, or dead."
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Post #403,127
6/29/15 11:29:29 PM
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Re: yankee white privilege remains, thank you for making my point, Im done now.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,113
6/29/15 9:28:16 PM
6/29/15 9:43:24 PM
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One can always (strike)found(strike) find an outlier. (sheesh)
Though finding one here (an article about a "support the Confederate flag" rally in SC) may be tough... Pew poll from 2011: Racial Differences in Reactions to Confederate Flag
Only a small number of Americans say they display the Confederate flag, but that symbol of the Southern cause elicits more negative reactions from some groups – especially African Americans, Democrats and the highly educated. Nevertheless, most Americans say they do not react positively or negatively when they see the Confederate flag.
Fewer than one-in-ten (8%) say they display the Confederate flag in places such as their home or office, on their car or on their clothing; 91% say they do not. The number that displays the Confederate flag is just a small fraction of the 75% who say they display the American flag in their homes or offices, on their cars or their clothing.
Far more African Americans than whites have a negative reaction to the Confederate flag (41% to 29%). Still, about as many blacks have no reaction (45%) as a negative reaction to the Confederate flag. Among whites, 61% have no reaction.
Whites who consider themselves Southerners have a more positive reaction to the Confederate flag than do other whites: 22% say they react positively when they see the Confederate flag displayed, compared with 8% of all whites and just 4% of whites who do not consider themselves Southerners.
Nearly half of those with at least a college degree (46%) say they have a negative reaction to the display of the Confederate flag, compared with a third (33%) of those with some college experience and just 18% of those with a high school diploma or less.
There also are partisan differences in reactions to the flag: about twice as many Democrats (44%) as Republicans (21%) react negatively to displays of the Confederate flag. And Republicans are more likely than Democrats to have a positive reaction to the flag (15% vs. 7%). (Emphasis added.) The Confederate flag isn't a "Southern" thing - it's a "Southern White" thing (and a thing among those who have similar sentiments). FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #403,120
6/29/15 10:59:21 PM
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would be curious of a pew poll that asked the following question in the north
if you saw a white man eating grits at dinner would you say he is racist? Has different tastes? Who could eat that shit at any time?
polls are important and I have already stated that flag has no business on public buildings. Other places have many reasons to fly it, not all of them in support of slavery or Jim Crow. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
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Post #403,108
6/29/15 8:55:53 PM
6/29/15 8:56:56 PM
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another dupe; ignore
Edited by rcareaga
June 29, 2015, 08:56:56 PM EDT
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Post #403,099
6/29/15 7:14:54 PM
6/29/15 7:16:15 PM
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dup, ignore
Edited by rcareaga
June 29, 2015, 07:16:15 PM EDT
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