keywords: bridge, water, under, varlinux, divorce, help

Post #39,940 by kmself 5/26/02 1:17:13 AM Reply	keywords: bridge, water, under, varlinux, divorce, help Looks like Nick's got [link\|http://www.varlinux.org/article.php?sid=1002\|good news / bad news]. He keeps the kids but can't keep his site up without help. As my subject suggests, this is a complex situation, but many of us can attribute our participation here (and involvement in GNU/Linux) directly to Nick. If you've got ways and means, pay a visit to his article. `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand? Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead. [link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]`
Post #39,945 by Ashton 5/26/02 5:08:27 AM Reply	beliefs, other-beliefs, winning, children, winning children? It's nice about the real (and quite early) assistance of Nick re all which has occurred with Linux. And its corollary - all that remains ugly about M$ in this zero-sum ongoing contest. He has helped the one upwards and the other downwards. Also has taken personal risks, to accomplish this considerable work. Quite right about his connection with this ongoing group. Tough.. to relate that with -- what about the now missing parent (who also has posted here) and her situation? Reading the comments at both sites, mostly supportive of (allrolledintoone) Nick's writing performance and the Rightness of his application of theological principles, I noted one word coming to mind. Frequently. Intransigence. About roles, attitudes. Possibly it is a branch under Righteousness? or at least under Certainty. Maybe I notice this especially, for having just finished the CS Lewis trilogy, the author to whom Nick refers a couple times - as being seminal in his discovery of [whatever]. Gotta be tough to cohabitate with Truth and Wrongth in same room (?) 'Awarding of children' - now there's tragedy. So.. hang in there Janice, (Too..) wherever you are! Hope you aren't starving, after the lawyer tax. Need a hand? Ashton
Post #39,956 by boxley 5/26/02 10:00:41 AM Reply	wall, hit This is a classic example of why people are encouraged to marry within their own faith. When religion and children are mixed you have one parent who wants to see the kids and love them and the other partner wants to save their everlasting souls. A hard thing for BOTH parties and even tougher on the kids. I wish Janice and Nick well and pray for the children because they are the ones most likely to feel the most pain. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,969 by ben_tilly 5/26/02 11:22:09 AM Reply	I am with Ashton What about Janice? I am sure that she and Nick had legitimate differences, but I am also concerned with how she turned out. (Note that finances are not just Nick wins, she loses, versus she wins, Nick loses. The lawyers undoubtably get their cut.) Anyone know how to contact her? And a note to boxley. I suspect their religious differences were not so big when they married and grew as Nick became more strongly fundamentalist. (This is based on a couple of passing comments, and could well be wrong.) Cheers, Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #39,982 by Steve Lowe 5/26/02 4:14:39 PM Reply	FWIW I've had ongoing email conversations with Nick since this started. There's obviously a lot going on here, and there's a lot that Nick's shared with me that I don't think I should repeat. However, I think I'm safe in sharing that Janice decided to convert to Islam. [link\|http://www.petreley.org/article.php?sid=83&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0\|Here's] Nick's first public announcement for everyone's recollection. [link\|mailto:nicholas@petreley.org\|Nick] would probably answer any questions, and would certainly appreciate any emails of support. Peace. ----- Steve
Post #39,983 by Andrew Grygus 5/26/02 4:52:39 PM Reply	Yagottabekidding . . . . there's plenty of things I can see a sane woman converting to - wicca, buddhism, even catholicism, but Islam just ain't one of 'em. Talk about jumping out of the frying pan into the fire - wasn't Nick's brand of fundamentalism repressive enough for her? No wonder he was able to keep the kids. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #40,062 by Brandioch 5/27/02 2:56:35 PM Reply	I don't see much of a difference, really. Islam Judiasm Catholicism Fundamentalist whatever All can be as restrictive as the rest. It depends upon the "interpretation" of the one(s) with the power. This doesn't even take into account that a person can "believe" one thing (religion) yet act in a totally different way, every day.
Post #40,374 by inthane-chan 5/29/02 4:37:05 PM Reply	Islam and women are not mutually exclusive. One of my wife's friends converted while in college - she became convinced that the Islamic attire for women was actually an equalizer, that forced men to take women as people, not sex objects. Considering who "wears the pants" in my wife's friend's marriage unit, it seems to have worked out pretty well... InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
Post #39,989 by ben_tilly 5/26/02 6:31:15 PM Reply	This is supposed to horrify me? They are going through a divorce. It is probably ugly. Well I have seen some pretty damned ugly divorces up close and personal. No surprise there. Most of us can be made to sound like real assholes by someone who knows us. I am no exception to that. So she is converting to Islam. Well I have counted as friends several muslims whose faith bothered me less than most brands of Christian fundamentalism. Islam doesn't start and end with the Saudi Wahabi sect. Plus even if she has converted to an extreme sect, doesn't that suggest to you that she could use a gentle reminder that she still has friends out there? And about the two principals here. Please remember that I have a personal reason to be biased. I liked and got along with both of them most of the time, but Nick's brand of fundamentalism resulted several times in his flaring out fairly seriously at me, while Janice was always pretty reasonable. So if you will pardon me, I am not trying to choose sides. I am just asking about Janice. Does anyone have contact information for her, know how she is doing, etc? Cheers, Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #39,995 by Ashton 5/26/02 9:14:42 PM Reply	If you discover a means for contact, which preserves J's privacy - maybe via the mail-list (?) or another way, you could inform some of us other than publicly. Unclear whether she needs more than just kind words. I always found her comments (and rebuttals :-) quite civil - thank GRR that she was 'blessed' with a sense of humour and proportionality, hopefully about lots of homo-sap silliness. (But humour won't much ameliorate separation from one's children, we see.) I don't find her switch particularly surprising either - lot less of imaginary 'personalized conversations with #1' there.. What you flee-from is always the clearer, in any event. Ashton
Post #40,015 by Steve Lowe 5/27/02 1:23:20 AM Reply	Nope Sorry, I didn't intend to portray that as a negative, or as to why one would choose sides. Merely as a reason, nothing more. I've been through a pretty damned ugly divorce, happened in 97-98 and I'm still paying for it, in a number of ways. ----- Steve
Post #40,008 by orion 5/26/02 11:29:08 PM Reply	I wish the best to both of them and the kids I do not want to take sides here. But I hope that they are able to settle their differences. I've seen both of them post here, and they were able to offer advice in different ways. I'd help the Varlinux but I got problems of my own, like finding a job, getting over this depression, trying to get my own system working properly, etc. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #39,990 by Meerkat 5/26/02 7:01:17 PM Reply	I genuinely admire your charitability. Anyone who called me 'the ultimate asshole', as he did to you, would be permanently on my shit list. (no pun intended) On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #40,093 by CRConrad 5/27/02 6:26:57 PM Reply	So do I - "from the safety of being out of range"... That is, I couldn't share it, if it were me. What you going for, Ben -- sainthood? ;^/ Christian R. Conrad Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #40,098 by ben_tilly 5/27/02 6:55:16 PM Reply	Um, the "you" is Karsten? At least that is who Meerkat was replying to... Cheers, Ben PS I already am a saint on Perlmonks. :-) "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #40,104 by kmself 5/27/02 8:35:55 PM Reply	Perlmonks saint my ass Last I checked, you were a martyr. `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand? Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead. [link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]`
Post #40,107 by ben_tilly 5/27/02 9:06:35 PM Reply	The two are not mutually exclusive :-) "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #40,108 by slugbug 5/27/02 9:06:38 PM Reply	Hmmm.... Now where is my shovel....
Post #40,123 by kmself 5/27/02 11:07:54 PM Reply	I've got it... ...and am digging away busily, thankyouverymuch. `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand? Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead. [link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]`
Post #40,110 by Ashton 5/27/02 9:16:29 PM Reply	pre-Canonization: you must invite us to the Pyre Event!
Post #40,178 by CRConrad 5/28/02 12:16:02 PM Reply	Ah, yes... Did I misread, or John mispost? Can't remember Nick spewing such flaming vitriol at K; at you, though... Can. Christian R. Conrad Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #40,228 by ben_tilly 5/28/02 6:51:05 PM Reply	I don't remember exactly what he said to who But I do remember that "vitriol" is an accurate description. Cheers, Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #40,281 by Meerkat 5/29/02 3:49:01 AM Reply	I had my facts straight But yeah, could've been a bit clearer in the presentation, sorry. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #40,418 by CRConrad 5/29/02 8:12:59 PM Reply	No no - not your fault; mine, for ass-u-ming what you meant.

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