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New You can "Ha!" all you like. You're arguing against a point I didn't make.
However: let's be realistic.

The CoE is pretty much irrelevant to the daily life of people in the UK (note our effortless legalisation of gay marriage, forex). We have openly atheist party leaders, one of whom has a much better than even chance of being Prime Minister in May. But then, being "openly atheist" in the UK is about as controversial as my Volvo. "Openly atheist? The clothes-wearing, air-breathing bastard!". There are bishops in the HoL (fat lot of good it did them in the gay marriage vote, mind), but that's going to be an elected, secular chamber within the next couple of parliaments.

Everywhere in the UK it's totes fine to be an atheist, despite our having a Church of England. It's totes not fine to be an atheist across huge swathes of "secular" America, and absent the metropolitan centres of the left and right coasts, it seems to be getting worse, not better. You might have a black president now, you might have a woman president next, but I'd wager a pint you won't have a gay or atheist president in my lifetime.
New Can't we just elect a gay, atheist woman of Jewish ancestry?
Then we don't have to listen to the rest of the world congratulate themselves for their moral superiority any more.

I mean, obviously we'd oppose absolutely everything she tries to do. But at least it would prove once-and-for-all that we're not bigots, right?
--

Drew
New back when your betters were kowtowing to the royals
we decided that having a state backed religion was bullshit and specifically wrote in the founding documents that religion can fuck the fuck off when it comes to interference in government affairs. Of course the religious have been fighting that tooth and nail since the founding of the country but thats what they do.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
New Real question
Which is better: Having a law that says there can't be a state religion, but an electoral process that effectively blocks participation by minority or non-religious people? Or having an official state church that has no real day-to-day influence?
--

Drew
New thats what you have courts for
I dont think the current president was voted in by the majority smugs, do you? All of the fervently democratic folks seem to be open to non religionists, or do you think that the democratic party is against atheists gays and non whites?
In the 1950's maybe but they have grown up since then
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
New Colbert did a bit about this
Paraphrasing: Don't judge America by what we actually do. Judge us by what we would do. America would never torture people. America would never judge people by the color of their skin. Etc. etc. etc.

So you say we're open to atheists? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/05/congress-religious-affiliation_n_6417074.html
The 114th Congress has a grand total of one member who is unaffiliated. That's 0.2% of Congress vs 20% of the U.S. population. Apparently people are 100 times more likely to be unaffiliated than to vote that way.
--

Drew
New eh? bhudist muslim hindu anglican lutheran catholic unitarian
accounts for 1/2 of the crew, not exactly raging fundies, more a label
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
New You count Anglican, Lutheran and Catholic as "other"?
Catholic is the largest single denomination within "Christian", and of the Protestant denominations Anglican and Lutheran are both in the top 5.

Not much of an argument, even by your standards.
--

Drew
New you counting them in the same group as liberty university graduates? I dont
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
New That's a different question
You're arguing that "these" Christians aren't the same as "those" Christians. I'm talking about whether a non-Christian can be elected.
--

Drew
New Obama did. He's Muslim. I heard that on the radio.
New Did Rev Wright know that?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
New not a chance
I am sentenced to coerced worship. I report to a holy roller judge. If I give any push back I go straight to jail.
New Neither. Both are equally bad.
Having an official church gives the impression that organized religion has merit. It doesn't. It is an opiate.
New Clearly the latter, of course
A demonstrated, unarguable irrelevance is the ultimate vote in such matters, and needs no violent other-forms of protest for the POV:
to.. just.. Go Away (but one has to have patience for that to work.)

We've had indirect, small-scale confrontations all along--since the Beginning!--about 'believing'; none of the modrin deconstructions discover anything new
about about the fatality of such sub-routines running-in-background in an otherwise functioning mind (wherever That thing "resides"?)

Will the 21st Century see occur a true denouement of the whole virus? Or will it require First: the extermination of the entire species
(and most-all mammals, none of whom has ever been given a vote at The Green Table) to shred that DNA?


SCARY.. innit? to be unable to predict that Answer, with any confidence.
(You'd first have to disabuse every Believer of any faith that there can ever be Certainty in this world/such as we Are.)

Love. It. or leave it, eh?
     What ISIS really wants - (malraux) - (39)
         very well written, thanks -NT - (boxley)
         Juan Cole's thoughts. - (Another Scott) - (29)
             whose reality? Yours? Mine? Abe from Sammara? - (boxley) - (28)
                 Cole has been studying this stuff for 40 years or more. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                     death penalty for mischief on offer - (boxley) - (2)
                         Almost 6 years ago? - (Another Scott) - (1)
                             last nov 2014 better time fr ya? - (boxley)
                 It must be hard for many Muslims . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (23)
                     It's interesting to watch - (pwhysall) - (22)
                         Ha! - (mmoffitt) - (16)
                             You can "Ha!" all you like. You're arguing against a point I didn't make. - (pwhysall) - (14)
                                 Can't we just elect a gay, atheist woman of Jewish ancestry? - (drook)
                                 back when your betters were kowtowing to the royals - (boxley) - (12)
                                     Real question - (drook) - (11)
                                         thats what you have courts for - (boxley) - (8)
                                             Colbert did a bit about this - (drook) - (6)
                                                 eh? bhudist muslim hindu anglican lutheran catholic unitarian - (boxley) - (5)
                                                     You count Anglican, Lutheran and Catholic as "other"? - (drook) - (4)
                                                         you counting them in the same group as liberty university graduates? I dont -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                                             That's a different question - (drook) - (2)
                                                                 Obama did. He's Muslim. I heard that on the radio. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                     Did Rev Wright know that? -NT - (boxley)
                                             not a chance - (crazy)
                                         Neither. Both are equally bad. - (mmoffitt)
                                         Clearly the latter, of course - (Ashton)
                             rush is gay? -NT - (boxley)
                         It's scary to watch. - (static) - (4)
                             Re: It's scary to watch. - (malraux) - (1)
                                 That's why I'd like to read another book on the subject. - (static)
                             while it is true that the winners dictate how history reads - (boxley)
                             Re: It's scary to watch. - (Ashton)
         Adam Silverman's take. - (Another Scott) - (1)
             [Cool Hand Luke} 'What we've got here is a failure to communicate' [/Cool] - (Ashton)
         ThinkProgress's take. - (Another Scott) - (5)
             cair? really? couldnt you find something on briebart? -NT - (boxley)
             "Council on American-Islamic Relations" - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                 "the proof is in the pudding" - (Another Scott) - (2)
                     In response to the kind of Muslim initiated mass slaughter . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                         Conscience-free slaughter proves their felt-immunity to any communication with others. - (Ashton)

Fighting and romance are weirdly similar in many ways. Two people lock eyes in a crowded room. Everybody can feel the intensity of the emotions between them. One of them suggests that they step outside. “Come on, just you and me.” It starts out dignified, but they end up rolling around, tearing at each other’s clothing.

Also, both fighting and romance tend to look a lot better in movies than they do in real life.
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